I don't think it un-reasonable to be asked to add our real name to our posts. I administer the National Microlight Association of Ireland Bulletin Board and a lot of the content is only viewable by verified members of the association, there is a public section, but small. It is not difficult to add permissions to the PhP software to allow this, public forum for the masses, closed forum for the members. It also lets users assume a "non-de-plume" but has an introduce yourself thread where you must post your real name.
As with any admin job, you won't please everyone, but you do the best you can... and you cannot ask more than that.
Life is too short.... get on with it.
ANONYMITY ON POSTINGS TO END.
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
Well Peter best of luck!,
Are you really seriously telling me that a year ago it was agreed to remove anonymity and nothing happens, no one (members that is), and especially me) is aware of it and someone takes some level of offence and then it is suddenly important?
This organisation has a real problem in terms of communicating and getting support from its own members (let alone those of the BMAA!) and so this is the way forward?
Like it or not (and it would appear many or most committee members do not!) this BB is virtually the only dynamic method of communication between the members and the committee and its members (although that is a rarely trodden path). So presumably the idea is to get people to self sensor on the basis that the 'trouble makers' will be known?
Any IT literate person would advise that you can easily identify peoples IP addresses and we all had to use our membership numbers etc to register. So management of some horrendous input would be pretty easy.
But I am left with a sinking feeling about the overall approach of the committee towards its members - we are not an encombrance - we are the association! And yes we are a real pain but we are not going to go back to writing stamped adddress letters for submission to a committee meeting.
The LAA or really the PFA, already has a serious image problem in BB circles (Flyer, PPRUNE, UKGA), these sort of moves simply alienate the most vocal and potentially involved members that you have.
If this is so important carry on. I will remain a member because I have to be for the moment because I have a permit aircraft. Will I sing the praises of the organisation? Pretty unlikely. Will I join an alternative if it exists? Possibly - particularly if it does n't act like the date is 1954.
Oh and to repeat the requests of many years - could we have the minutes of all the committee meetings communicated to the members?
After all surely the committee members have nothing to hide?
Pete Morris (cannot remember my membership number!)
Are you really seriously telling me that a year ago it was agreed to remove anonymity and nothing happens, no one (members that is), and especially me) is aware of it and someone takes some level of offence and then it is suddenly important?
This organisation has a real problem in terms of communicating and getting support from its own members (let alone those of the BMAA!) and so this is the way forward?
Like it or not (and it would appear many or most committee members do not!) this BB is virtually the only dynamic method of communication between the members and the committee and its members (although that is a rarely trodden path). So presumably the idea is to get people to self sensor on the basis that the 'trouble makers' will be known?
Any IT literate person would advise that you can easily identify peoples IP addresses and we all had to use our membership numbers etc to register. So management of some horrendous input would be pretty easy.
But I am left with a sinking feeling about the overall approach of the committee towards its members - we are not an encombrance - we are the association! And yes we are a real pain but we are not going to go back to writing stamped adddress letters for submission to a committee meeting.
The LAA or really the PFA, already has a serious image problem in BB circles (Flyer, PPRUNE, UKGA), these sort of moves simply alienate the most vocal and potentially involved members that you have.
If this is so important carry on. I will remain a member because I have to be for the moment because I have a permit aircraft. Will I sing the praises of the organisation? Pretty unlikely. Will I join an alternative if it exists? Possibly - particularly if it does n't act like the date is 1954.
Oh and to repeat the requests of many years - could we have the minutes of all the committee meetings communicated to the members?
After all surely the committee members have nothing to hide?
Pete Morris (cannot remember my membership number!)
I tend to use my own name anyway, but am still confused by the motivation for this...
We all signed up with our names and membership numbers. Surely the LAA board administrators already know (or could easily find out) who we are.
Why is it any one else's business?
I'd want a journalist quoting me by name without permission even LESS than I'd want another LAA member who I might disagree with to know it!
To me it smacks of a knee jerk reaction by people who don't truly understand the nature of the modern Internet so want to grab back what little control there might be, and stifle it in the process.
We all signed up with our names and membership numbers. Surely the LAA board administrators already know (or could easily find out) who we are.
Why is it any one else's business?
I'd want a journalist quoting me by name without permission even LESS than I'd want another LAA member who I might disagree with to know it!
To me it smacks of a knee jerk reaction by people who don't truly understand the nature of the modern Internet so want to grab back what little control there might be, and stifle it in the process.
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Peter Harvey
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:50 pm
- Location: Mk-Northampton
- Contact:
Thanks for the feedback. Whilst I don't subscribe to much of what you say, there's a great deal of sense I do support.
I don't believe at any point I suggested you change the content of your postings...
This forum is for the members. But it is a resource for ALL members, not a subset. It's also a valuable resource for potential members, enthusiasts, GA pilots, the public at large, even our colleagues in the CAA, EASA, the DfT, police...
Whilst the forum works well for 99% of the time, we do have a really significant problem (occasionally) and it must be addressed.
HQ know who everyone is on the forum via your membership number - WE don't need your names. This is about you.
This move is to protect your association from libel and to support other entities (CAA, AAIB, Police, businesses, next of kin, etc). The hope is that removing your anonymity and perceived protection will make you think twice when writing tasteless, libellous or misleading information, rumour, inuendo, etc. Especially when it's under the LAA's name (which it is on this forum).
We're not even requesting you change your posts! Business as usual, but it's not unreasonable for 'adults' to take responsibility for their public postings. And make no mistake, this forum is very public. Especially when the press are on a feeding frenzy.
Of course, we could close the doors and make it members only, but then the press would simply join and libel is still libel...that doesn't protect the rest of us.
I can't go into details for obvious reasons, but can say I wasted some three days of my (your!) time recently and we narrowly avoided a PR disaster by pulling postings, not to mention intense pain to the victims. HQ should not have to do this and surely the membership doesn't want to fund full time moderators.
The BMAA have requested users use their real names since May this year.
The BGA do not have a forum.
If you want to have an anonymous pop at EC, then send me the posting and I'll post it (without your name of course).
My experience is that your EC work incredibly hard on your behalf. Take a look at John Brady's consultation section, Brian's inspired work on the mag (and now the courses for ET), Mike's work on membership development, John Broads' VAC, safety, James on our corporate governance, Roger on EASA, CAA and DfT interface, Barry's work on engineering and EASA, it goes on. And on. It's SO easy to complain and let's face it GA has never had so many threats from multi tiered regulation, spiralling costs, reducing airspace, Mode S, UAVs, the lawyers and availability of insurance.
Using one's own name seems a small request within the larger picture.
Rant over.
Pete Harvey
I don't believe at any point I suggested you change the content of your postings...
This forum is for the members. But it is a resource for ALL members, not a subset. It's also a valuable resource for potential members, enthusiasts, GA pilots, the public at large, even our colleagues in the CAA, EASA, the DfT, police...
Whilst the forum works well for 99% of the time, we do have a really significant problem (occasionally) and it must be addressed.
HQ know who everyone is on the forum via your membership number - WE don't need your names. This is about you.
This move is to protect your association from libel and to support other entities (CAA, AAIB, Police, businesses, next of kin, etc). The hope is that removing your anonymity and perceived protection will make you think twice when writing tasteless, libellous or misleading information, rumour, inuendo, etc. Especially when it's under the LAA's name (which it is on this forum).
We're not even requesting you change your posts! Business as usual, but it's not unreasonable for 'adults' to take responsibility for their public postings. And make no mistake, this forum is very public. Especially when the press are on a feeding frenzy.
Of course, we could close the doors and make it members only, but then the press would simply join and libel is still libel...that doesn't protect the rest of us.
I can't go into details for obvious reasons, but can say I wasted some three days of my (your!) time recently and we narrowly avoided a PR disaster by pulling postings, not to mention intense pain to the victims. HQ should not have to do this and surely the membership doesn't want to fund full time moderators.
The BMAA have requested users use their real names since May this year.
The BGA do not have a forum.
If you want to have an anonymous pop at EC, then send me the posting and I'll post it (without your name of course).
My experience is that your EC work incredibly hard on your behalf. Take a look at John Brady's consultation section, Brian's inspired work on the mag (and now the courses for ET), Mike's work on membership development, John Broads' VAC, safety, James on our corporate governance, Roger on EASA, CAA and DfT interface, Barry's work on engineering and EASA, it goes on. And on. It's SO easy to complain and let's face it GA has never had so many threats from multi tiered regulation, spiralling costs, reducing airspace, Mode S, UAVs, the lawyers and availability of insurance.
Using one's own name seems a small request within the larger picture.
Rant over.
Pete Harvey
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steveneale
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: Bristol'ish
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Nick Allen
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: Oxford
- Contact:
Could the Forum permissions not be so constructed that one's Profile is only viewable by members, but must contain full names? That way those who have good reasons for not having their names in a public arena can maintain a level of anonymity to the world at large (without having to bother the CEO!).
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steveneale
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: Bristol'ish
I think it is EC that would need to be asked to think again. Peter's job is to implement their decisions. He cannot change what they decide.
Re the BB, user names cannot be changed, the SW will not allow it. People will have to register yet again (is this the third or fourth time?) and they simply won't bother. There has been tumble weed blowing though here since the last forced re-registration and it's problems. Many just gave up trying to register and drifted away. So any "heavy hand from HQ" will simply finish the job.
I assume there is a real potential threat or this decision would be paranoid so I would second Rod1's suggestion above if he can get Flyer's agreement to set up a LAA section. It removes the responsibility for post content from LAA so Peter can sleep sounder at night, he saves a few meg of webspace and also get's Penny freed up a little. In return non members can join our discussions and removal of posting restrictions can only help membership numbers and encourage free debate. Flyer admin and moderators seem well up to managing the odd cat fight and generally do a pro job with a light touch.
Steve
Re the BB, user names cannot be changed, the SW will not allow it. People will have to register yet again (is this the third or fourth time?) and they simply won't bother. There has been tumble weed blowing though here since the last forced re-registration and it's problems. Many just gave up trying to register and drifted away. So any "heavy hand from HQ" will simply finish the job.
I assume there is a real potential threat or this decision would be paranoid so I would second Rod1's suggestion above if he can get Flyer's agreement to set up a LAA section. It removes the responsibility for post content from LAA so Peter can sleep sounder at night, he saves a few meg of webspace and also get's Penny freed up a little. In return non members can join our discussions and removal of posting restrictions can only help membership numbers and encourage free debate. Flyer admin and moderators seem well up to managing the odd cat fight and generally do a pro job with a light touch.
Steve
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Donald Walker
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:35 pm
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Nigel Ramsay
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:13 pm
- Location: Middle Earth
Anonymity on the BB
Reading this thread, a number of things come to mind;
I use my real name because I found that using a 'funny' name often led to being totally ignored! A few of you posting on here may know me, God knows I've been around the PFA/LAA scene for long enough.
As an ex-EC member, and indeed Vice Chairman, I can tell you that the job of the EC is an incredibly difficult one, no matter which way you try to run the association.
The BB is the original double-edged sword. Both for Good and Bad, the BB is viewable world-wide and like any BB opinions and statements made reflect on OUR association and the sport of recreational Flying in the UK. Where one of us may make a comment which is perfectly reasonable between ourselves, because we UNDERSTAND as pilots/builders - you can be damn sure the press or media will if they can dramatise it (remember the press frenzy when a 'Boeing' crash landed in a field a few years ago? Hilarious that the national press and TV rushed to a field where a Stearman had made a precautionary landing! No harm done in that case but I'm sure you get my point?)
Also the BB has very few members compared with the total membership and as such does NOT represent the views of the membership I'm afraid (I agree before you jump up and down that those of us on here are the only ones bothering, but those not subscribing will not necessarily agree, and of course many more read the BB than post on it).
There isn't a simple answer to the problem and I'm not convinced that making everyone post their real name is necessary for the very sound reasons given in this thread. I've been the victim of bad press on another BB which affected my business at the time - a small number of individuals who had never met me, didn't use my products, but thought they were experts, caused me no end of harm by their published opinions which virtually destroyed sales of a perfectly good product because my potential customers were 'read only' bber's trrying to get guidance starting out on a new hobby - so you see I feel pretty strongly about BB's and how they work!
Closer to home - a pretty lengthy thread started on the Rally. I'm on the team working towards resurrection of it, but I chose not to post on that thread as it became the soap box for a relatively small number whose opinions varied enormously, but in truth represented a minute percentage of the membership. What is the point of getting into detail in such an arena. The EC are managing the process on behalf of the LAA membership and whatever the outcome we have to trust them to act in our best interests. We'll use the LAA website eventually to pass on all relevant information, but the BB will I'm afraid be as effective as the posters choose to make it.
To be honest I don't have an answer, but neither do I personally mind using my real name!
I use my real name because I found that using a 'funny' name often led to being totally ignored! A few of you posting on here may know me, God knows I've been around the PFA/LAA scene for long enough.
As an ex-EC member, and indeed Vice Chairman, I can tell you that the job of the EC is an incredibly difficult one, no matter which way you try to run the association.
The BB is the original double-edged sword. Both for Good and Bad, the BB is viewable world-wide and like any BB opinions and statements made reflect on OUR association and the sport of recreational Flying in the UK. Where one of us may make a comment which is perfectly reasonable between ourselves, because we UNDERSTAND as pilots/builders - you can be damn sure the press or media will if they can dramatise it (remember the press frenzy when a 'Boeing' crash landed in a field a few years ago? Hilarious that the national press and TV rushed to a field where a Stearman had made a precautionary landing! No harm done in that case but I'm sure you get my point?)
Also the BB has very few members compared with the total membership and as such does NOT represent the views of the membership I'm afraid (I agree before you jump up and down that those of us on here are the only ones bothering, but those not subscribing will not necessarily agree, and of course many more read the BB than post on it).
There isn't a simple answer to the problem and I'm not convinced that making everyone post their real name is necessary for the very sound reasons given in this thread. I've been the victim of bad press on another BB which affected my business at the time - a small number of individuals who had never met me, didn't use my products, but thought they were experts, caused me no end of harm by their published opinions which virtually destroyed sales of a perfectly good product because my potential customers were 'read only' bber's trrying to get guidance starting out on a new hobby - so you see I feel pretty strongly about BB's and how they work!
Closer to home - a pretty lengthy thread started on the Rally. I'm on the team working towards resurrection of it, but I chose not to post on that thread as it became the soap box for a relatively small number whose opinions varied enormously, but in truth represented a minute percentage of the membership. What is the point of getting into detail in such an arena. The EC are managing the process on behalf of the LAA membership and whatever the outcome we have to trust them to act in our best interests. We'll use the LAA website eventually to pass on all relevant information, but the BB will I'm afraid be as effective as the posters choose to make it.
To be honest I don't have an answer, but neither do I personally mind using my real name!
My Employer will not allow me to post under my real name, but I have emailed PH on the subject. I think this will be the case with several other members who work for large organisations with aviation as all or part of their business. That is to say I could post, but I would have to get every one cleared by external communications as though it was a press release! 
Rod1
Rod1
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