As some of you will know there has been a total silence regarding the second consultation! The CAA is now expecting to respond in the next 2 weeks so lets hope there is not too much devil in the detail.
If you are thinking for fitting mode s and are short of money / electrons / panel space or concerned about the weight then have a look at the Trig new 'miniature' Mode S transponder the TT21. 500g and capable of fitting in an ultra-compact 42x57mm cut-out. Depth behind the panel is less than 70mm, 130 Watts, extended squitter built in encoder and all for around £1,295! Power requirements are very low making operation off batteries practical so this may help a lot of members who have been unable to fit “old tec” transponders.
Rod1
(This is posted by an ordinary member and is in no way an official LAA statement)
Mode S Update
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
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John Price
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:27 pm
- Location: Eynsford
I don't have the fine detail (you can Google for it) but believe the recent problems with Funkwerk transponders was more to do with satisfactory interoperability. Under certain conditions, in a mixed mode transponder environment, the Mode S data wasn't being transmitted as per specification. This wasn't a "normal" hardware failure; probably an internal software/processing logic issue.
Trig has been producing transponders for a few years now and will have to get this new model certified like any other manufacturer.
Tony Nowak
Trig has been producing transponders for a few years now and will have to get this new model certified like any other manufacturer.
Tony Nowak
Rod1,
You're missing the point somewhat, yes its small, but it's still £1.295! Thats a huge chunk of my annual flying budget, and a third of the value of a VP, Luton or similar.
When all this started the CAA promised kit for under £500, and something that could transfer between a/c like an Icom.
No wonder they've gone quite.
CH
You're missing the point somewhat, yes its small, but it's still £1.295! Thats a huge chunk of my annual flying budget, and a third of the value of a VP, Luton or similar.
When all this started the CAA promised kit for under £500, and something that could transfer between a/c like an Icom.
No wonder they've gone quite.
CH
CH
I do understand the price issue. I do not have mode s, I chose to fit a second hand mode c unit which is working well. £1295 is better than the £4500 I was quoted when I was building my panel 6 years ago! The CAA /EASA originally wanted all flying machines to fit mandatory mode s. The LAA was at the forefront of the campaign against this, and the CAA has now stated that for VFR flight, outside CAS, Mode S will not be required (well done John).
During the campaign the CAA representatives attempted to convince us that a unit would be available for around £500, it would be the size and weight of a mobile phone and similar battery life. The devide will never exist, and this is part of the reason that we gained the excemptions we have. The new unit is however much closer to the CAA device than anything else available at the moment. The European states are implementing mode s in varying degrees of enthusiasm. France, not at all, the Germans and Dutch, a lot. My aircraft is capable of touring Europe and at some point I will have to fit one. I will put it off for as long as possible, for many reasons (including Phase 3 – ADS-B) but I will have to fit one sooner or later.
Rod1
I do understand the price issue. I do not have mode s, I chose to fit a second hand mode c unit which is working well. £1295 is better than the £4500 I was quoted when I was building my panel 6 years ago! The CAA /EASA originally wanted all flying machines to fit mandatory mode s. The LAA was at the forefront of the campaign against this, and the CAA has now stated that for VFR flight, outside CAS, Mode S will not be required (well done John).
During the campaign the CAA representatives attempted to convince us that a unit would be available for around £500, it would be the size and weight of a mobile phone and similar battery life. The devide will never exist, and this is part of the reason that we gained the excemptions we have. The new unit is however much closer to the CAA device than anything else available at the moment. The European states are implementing mode s in varying degrees of enthusiasm. France, not at all, the Germans and Dutch, a lot. My aircraft is capable of touring Europe and at some point I will have to fit one. I will put it off for as long as possible, for many reasons (including Phase 3 – ADS-B) but I will have to fit one sooner or later.
Rod1
021864
Rod,
I'm not decrying all the hard work done by JB and others, and I fully recognise the relaxation in requirements that have been sucessfully won. People have done a grand job. But as you say you do need one if you are to tour internationally.
Mobile phone size mode S would be developed if the market was as large as the phone market, and the cost would fall. But the market is too small to trigger this level of development, and thus the price will not fall either. CAA and EASA expectations as you say were way off the mark.
Yes £1295 is better than £4.5K, but it is still too much to have to shell out on something that will, as you imply, quite quickly become obsolete and provide little interoperability between aircraft in the open FIR who are unlikely to be on the same frequency or in reciept of a radar service. I too will hold off as long as possible, but still feel this an unfair 'tax' on those wishing to fly outside our FIR, or gain acess to some bits within it. If you apply any form of cost/benefit analysis to this the little guy still loses.
CH
I'm not decrying all the hard work done by JB and others, and I fully recognise the relaxation in requirements that have been sucessfully won. People have done a grand job. But as you say you do need one if you are to tour internationally.
Mobile phone size mode S would be developed if the market was as large as the phone market, and the cost would fall. But the market is too small to trigger this level of development, and thus the price will not fall either. CAA and EASA expectations as you say were way off the mark.
Yes £1295 is better than £4.5K, but it is still too much to have to shell out on something that will, as you imply, quite quickly become obsolete and provide little interoperability between aircraft in the open FIR who are unlikely to be on the same frequency or in reciept of a radar service. I too will hold off as long as possible, but still feel this an unfair 'tax' on those wishing to fly outside our FIR, or gain acess to some bits within it. If you apply any form of cost/benefit analysis to this the little guy still loses.
CH
My situation is similar to that of CH. I share his concerns about mode S -and his gratitude to the L.A.A. for their efforts on our behalf.
I notice that the price quoted by one U.K. supplier is £1,449 including V.A.T. This is a large chunk of my humble flying budget - most of my annual allowance, in fact. This has to be added to the cost of a handheld radio and all the clobber connected with that.
My project is already creeping over the ideal empty weight, so even the TRIG unit, however light and nifty, would be a nuisance.
Perhaps I should have chosen a quarter scale Flying Fortress instead of my Boredom Fighter?
Ian
I notice that the price quoted by one U.K. supplier is £1,449 including V.A.T. This is a large chunk of my humble flying budget - most of my annual allowance, in fact. This has to be added to the cost of a handheld radio and all the clobber connected with that.
My project is already creeping over the ideal empty weight, so even the TRIG unit, however light and nifty, would be a nuisance.
Perhaps I should have chosen a quarter scale Flying Fortress instead of my Boredom Fighter?
Ian
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John Price
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:27 pm
- Location: Eynsford
Its all very simple Government wants to allow more CAT into the atmosphere, but ATC has run out of SSR codes.
So they, the CAA, change the system to a one size fits all agenda. Because a £5000 supply and fit charge to a £76 million Airbus is rearly insignificant . Its the way the CAA thinks !
Now they have cottoned on to the fact that GA is approx 96% of the airspace users there tone has become a little more humble.
Internally , I believe, it had no idea how big GA had become untill the Strtegic Review was published. I bet that shook them!
John.
So they, the CAA, change the system to a one size fits all agenda. Because a £5000 supply and fit charge to a £76 million Airbus is rearly insignificant . Its the way the CAA thinks !
Now they have cottoned on to the fact that GA is approx 96% of the airspace users there tone has become a little more humble.
Internally , I believe, it had no idea how big GA had become untill the Strtegic Review was published. I bet that shook them!
John.
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John Price
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:27 pm
- Location: Eynsford
STOP PRESS!!!
CAA mode S page. The response has been published under the Phase 2 more information bit.
John.
CAA mode S page. The response has been published under the Phase 2 more information bit.
John.
Last edited by John Price on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.