Aircraft ID plates.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:53 pm

Engineering has just introduced an aircraft identification plate, rather like those that manufacturers attach to their aircraft, with type, serial numbers etc.
Finished in brushed aluminium and engraved with your aircraft's details, these high quality plates add the finishing touch to your aircraft, and proudly desplay its LAA heritage.
Details on the home page.

Joe Iszard · Post by **Joe Iszard** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:40 pm

Mr Hope,

Nice to see you back on the forum, - but (OK Its Christmas) your spelling is suffering from tooo muuch , er something?

Happy Christmas and much flying in '09.

joe

Paul Lowry · Post by **Paul Lowry** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:14 pm

Brian,

A great idea and I will certainly order one for my new Sportcruiser.

Just one question: will this plate act as the fireproof plate I need to affix to my plane? I understood such a plate (with the reg on it) had to withstand a fire so that the remains could be identified and if so isn't an ally plate unsuitable?

Many thanks,

Paul Lowry G-CRWZ[/b]

Steve Brown · Post by **Steve Brown** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:34 pm

I asked Engineering that question last week ( ie could / should it be stainless) & await a reply. I also suggested that it would be a good idea to add the option of adding 'This aircraft has not been certificated to an international requirement' since it is partly to promote the LAA & hence likely to be in a prominent position.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:11 pm

The registration plate has to be fire proof so aluminum would not normally be acceptable. I understood stainless steal was normally used; it is certainly what I have in the MCR. Perhaps the rules have changed?

Rod1

Paul Lowry · Post by **Paul Lowry** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:18 pm

Rod,

I think it is unlikely that the rules have changed - I believe it is a Universal rule to allow identification of any aircraft (wreckage) anywhere in the world should the worst happen!

I guess I will need two plates then!

Happy Christmas,

Paul G-CRWZ

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:26 pm

The French have a convention that the aircraft type and serial number is put on the tail. It is not universally followed, but I have “MCR01 SN 251” on the tail. It cost next to nothing, adds almost no weight and keeps the spotters happy. I find the idea of the aluminum LAA plate a bit odd, but I guess each to his own. I hope they sell 1000’s and keep the cost of owner membership down.

Rod1

macconnacher · Post by **macconnacher** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:57 pm

At one time the fireproof plate had the address of the owners on it which was a pain with group aircraft as Stainless Steel plates are not cheap. On behalf of the Chiltern Strut I asked that the plate be limited to the registration marks and the PFA Engineering department and the hirearchy of the time (John Walker) refused to help saying that it was neccessary to include the address.
I subsequently approached the CAA direct and quoted the ICAO rules at them which only ever required the registration and thus the ANO was changed in 1988. A rare case of the NC, infact a single strut, taking matters into their own hands and getting the CAA to make a change since I as an EC member at the time could not get the EC to act on behalf of the members.

The dataplate is only expected to last the life of the airframe regardless of national registration and can be Aluminium since the data is held in the manufacturer's records.

The identification plate is an international requirement to back up the registration marks painted on the aircraft and must be fireproof and that is now taken to be stainless steel. If an aircraft changes registration by virtue of being sold overseas etc it has to replaced.

The fireproof identification plate is about the oldest aviation legal requirement in existance since it states that it must be affixed in a prominent position near to the main entrance to the aircraft or in very old times to the basket of your Montgolfier so that in event of the wreckage being consumed with fire (likely with a hydrogen balloon) it is possible to trace the wreckage and thus the owners. Switzerland and some other countries require the fireproof plate to be affixed under the tailplane where they hope it will survive better than being in the cockpit as in the UK no doubt if the aircraft hits a mountain that might help.

Sorry for the history

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:49 am

Official word on the subject from Engineering:
There are two schools of thought about whether aluminum alloy is fireproof in any legal sense, stainless has never been specifically stated as the ‘required’ material so, rather than get into a great debate about it we still require a steel plate fitted on the aircraft that has been engraved (or etched, or stamped) with the aircraft’s registration permanently fitted to the airframe.

Sandy Hutton · Post by **Sandy Hutton** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:52 pm

It's in CAP 562, leaflet 3.1.

Paul Lowry · Post by **Paul Lowry** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:17 pm

Sandy,

Thanks for the most helpful reply to-date. This confirms what I suspected. Interestingly the CAP states that the fireproof plate should not only have the reg. on it but also the owners name and address. This is in contradiction to what previous inspectors have told me.

We now have the requirements clear but I wonder how many existing aircraft comply? The plate is supposed to be by "the entrance" - don't think I know of any permit planes complying with this?

Best wishes,

Paul Lowry G-CRWZ

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:50 pm

My plate is "by the entrance" on the inside of the aircraft, and is engraved stainless steel but contains the registration only. It has been that way for 20 years and the aeroplane seems to fly OK.
My philosophy is that either I will be there alive and kicking and be able to tell them who the aircraft belongs to, or I'll be a gonner and they can check on G-INFO. The need for name and address may once have been necessary but with the internet spewing such information with just a couple of clicks it hardly seems necesary today.

Jim Gale · Post by **Jim Gale** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:12 pm

Interesting. Firstly I can't pull up CAP 526 and secondly I believe the EASA/CAA requirements are that the identification plate shall be steel (usually stainless) and shall carry the aircraft registration and aircraft type, embossed, engraved, etched or stamped. There is no longer a requirement for the owner's address. Twas approved by the CAA regional inspector 3 years ago after our rebuild.

Seasons Greetings and Blue Skies for 2009.
Jim.

Paul Lowry · Post by **Paul Lowry** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:19 pm

Jim,

It's CAP 562 not 526 - am I to take it that others may believe this "official" document has been superceded (or just ignored)?

Paul Lowry G-CRWZ

macconnacher · Post by **macconnacher** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:24 pm

Well folks it is in CAP 393 Section 1 Schedule B.

To quote
4) The nationality and registration marks shall also be inscribed on a fire-proof metal
plate affixed in a prominent position:
(a) in the case of a microlight aeroplane, either in accordance with sub-paragraph (c)
or on the wing;
(b) in the case of a balloon, on the basket or envelope; or
(c) in the case of any other aircraft on the fuselage or car as the case may be.

As I said in an earlier post we got the address requirement removed about 20 years ago.

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