International flights and Mode S

tnowak · Post by **tnowak** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:42 am

Does anyone know what exactly is the status of the Transport White Paper the CAA is basing so much of its incremental SSR requirements on? Is it only guidance, a wish list or a government forward planning document? Can the paper get withdrawn/revoked and if the government changed could it be ignored?

Seems to me that if an economic slowdown causes CAT to reduce (or stay stable) over the next 10-20 years then there may be no need at all for non-transponder equipped aircraft to have to equip in the short term.
TN

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:39 pm

OK with the 31st March only 3 weeks away I still can't find anything concrete about Mode S transition for the rest of Europe. CAA at the November Turweston meeting said they would find out. That was 3 months ago. Lots of F.U.D. on the internet but no solid info I can find. Has anyone else found anything definite?

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:34 pm

Hi Steve, have to say that all I get is conflicting stories! There is a Mode S seminar at Turweston next Saturday (15th ), open to all. I hope we at last get some definitive answers.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:55 am

Steve

The post that I put up at the beginning of this thread was directly from the CAA to me on this question. It was up to date early Jan and we will get an update on the 15th March. Not sure what FUD is but one can only do ones best…

Rod1

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:25 am

The work you have done in keeping us up to date is much appreciated Rod1. My concern is that we now need concrete references to National bodies transition rules that will stand up in court not hearsay from the CAA. Else the lawyers are going to get very fat on this in the next few months.

For example a German speaking friend of mine has scoured www.dfs.de and can find no mention of transition arrangements at all. The implication is they will just start enforcement on 31st.

Steve Brown · Post by **Steve Brown** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:56 am

FUD is :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_un ... _and_doubt

It also has some other medical connotation but I doubt that is applicable here (unless your female flying partner is caught short because you are not Mode S so not allowed to transit a control area and have to make an very extensive detour)

Post by **John Dean** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:56 pm

Reading the summary of the new consultation document in the magazine (thanks John), I see that if I want to go abroad after March 2009 with my mode C equipped aircraft, I will have to fill a form in and get a dispensation from having a mode S transponder.

I wonder why the CAA are doing it this way. Why could they not just give a blanket exemption to all mode C equipped aircraft. What is the purpose of the database they will acquire?

I really do not want to be on any more databases any more than I want an identity card.

John Price · Post by **John Price** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:58 pm

Possibly so that they will get an exact number of aircraft which are mode A& C equipped plus registrations and a contact.

John.

Wayne Mansfield · Post by **Wayne Mansfield** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:53 pm

I hardly dare ask, but -- What are the implications of actually having Mode S? As my Jodel 1050 will, hopefully, go permit this year, what is the implication of installing Mode S in it? Especially as we wish to travel to the Continent.

I am thinking of just biting the bullet, as we say on this side of the pond, and buying the Mode S. Is that anathema, or just sensible assuming I can find the readies?

Any comments or suggestion welcomed.

Wayne Mansfield · Post by **Wayne Mansfield** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:17 pm

Easy enough to get a mode C and wiring over here but instlled, or applied for in 4 days time? Or am I just being a bit thick?

Wayne Mansfield · Post by **Wayne Mansfield** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:37 am

Wonderful.

Thanks!

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:45 pm

The following is from a CAA hand out I received at the meeting with the CAA at LAA HQ today (15th March)

The CAA’s Understanding of Mode S carriage requirements in Europe.

(check with appropriate European regulator when planning your flight)

France

Mode S is required for all IFR flight. For VFR flight Mode a/c transponders are currently required in class B,C and D airspace, on notified roughts and for non-local night flights. My be introduction of Mode S for flight in TMA’s, but not before 09. (my own research indicates this may happen for the Paris area but is not a certinty)

Belgium

Copy of the Belgian AIC 17/2003 is available on the Eurocontrol website. This is the most up to date info available.

(my summary – IFR and VFR you need one, but 2003 was a long time ago)

Germany

Copy of the German AIC VFR 9 dated 11 dec 03 is available on Eurocontrol website.

(my summary you need mode s under normal circumstances but exemptions are available For example aircraft which cannot practically carry a transponder) Again this data is old.

Netherlands

Copy of Duch AIC B 04/04 dated April 04

(my summary - mandatory for all IFR flights, mandatory for VFR above 1200ft, except over the north sea and in Transponder Free Zones) Again this data is quite old.

Switzerland

Arrangements as now, mandatory s delayed due to equipment issues until 09

Hope this helps

Rod1

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:32 pm

Methinks the CAA's idea of what constitutes Europe is somewhat deficient.

Light Aircraft Association

International flights and Mode S

Further mode S question

mode c

31 March