International flights and Mode S

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:49 am

I have just had a long chat with John Banks at the CAA regarding international flights and Mode S. Formal responses have been received from France and The Netherlands and verbal comments from others.

France

No planes to insist on Mode S for international flights. Flights VFR in CAS (BCD) will require mode C minimum (as now). This situation may change, but not before 2009.

The Netherlands

No planes to insist on Mode S for international flights. You will be restricted 1200ft except in designated transponder-free zones.

The Swiss

Have delayed implementation beyond 2008, but no firm data as to when or what.

Belgium

Yet to consult so could not confirm.

I have asked John if we could produce a guide to “Touring Europe and Mode S” – as the CAA is our representatives in Europe, and he is considering this.

Rod1

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:03 am

Rod, That's good news (well, it is for people who have Mode C already!). Thanks for the update. I don't suppose there's any information about Germany and Italy is there? I'm harbouring a desire to fly down the Apennines.
Perhaps we need to wait for the "Guide" you mention.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:51 am

Germany and Italy.

No official info. Rumor has it that the Germans are going for Mode S in a big way, but I could not point you to any hard evidence of this. I get the impression that some of the states are just waking up to the fact that for VFR aircraft it is not necessarily easy to fit a transponder, and are struggling with the problem of how to modify their plan. This is a personal view, but if I am right there may be some U terns over the next 12 months.

It is very important we all respond to the new consultation when it comes out.

Rod1

leiafee · Post by **leiafee** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:38 pm

That sounds like broadly good news.

We're currently struggling through the decision whether or not to give in and put one in our share-oplane, and this helps with the "please let's not spend the money before we have to!" argument...

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:59 pm

Leia, When I joined my syndicate five years ago this week, one of the group -- a keen continental tourer -- was pushing to replace the Mode C with Mode S, as he was worried that his cross-channel jaunts were about to be curtailed. We held back: every year we discuss it again, and every year the powers that be dither and roll back the timescale!

leiafee · Post by **leiafee** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:25 pm

Nick Allen wrote:Leia, When I joined my syndicate five years ago this week, one of the group -- a keen continental tourer -- was pushing to replace the Mode C with Mode S, as he was worried that his cross-channel jaunts were about to be curtailed. We held back: every year we discuss it again, and every year the powers that be dither and roll back the timescale!

Well I must be fair, I am one of the people who wants to do some touring. And I don't want to be constrained by lack of kit. But what I really don't want to do is spend money we don't need to!

Ernest Lear · Post by **Ernest Lear** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:07 am

"According to the article the plan is that when an aircraft gets within a certain distance of a wind turbine, it will activate the beacon on the wind turbine so that the pilot can see it."

My question is how far from the wind turbine will the aircraft be when the beacon activate?

Nigel Hitchman · Post by **Nigel Hitchman** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:19 pm

I wonder how much the French actually enforce this Mode C requirement for controlled airspace? I flew back from Czech last June throught the following Class D zones Strasbourg, Metz, Nancy, Le Touquet with no transponder and didnt have any problems, also through Military zones on the way.
Didnt fly through any class D in Germany, although I did go through the "Transponder mandatory zone" around Baden-Baden, but was talking to Strassbourg by then, as its their class D airspace and they let me through.
I did have a small problem with Dinard later in the year, when they made me hold before letting me in because I didnt have a transponder, but that only wasted 10 min. I think it was while the Ryanair flight was landing, as it was on the ground when I got there.
Hopefully we will get a few more years foreign touring without mandatory transponders yet!

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:57 pm

Hi Nigel, I agree that things seem far more relaxed in reality than in theory. I was routing through Beauvais' zone squawking A when he came back and asked if I had C, I said no (I was not too sure of its accuracy at the time so had it off). I said I'd drop down below the zone if he wanted me to (1500) but he was happy to let me stay at 3500. Ostend is another chunk of airspace where they seem happy to allow traffic through without a transponder, and that has been mandated as a transponder only area for several years. I am becoming increasingly confident that we are going to be able to continue flying in much of Europe without transponders, or at least with Mode A/C, for the immediate future at least.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:32 pm

Two years ago (before by mode C was connected up) I was transiting a military area (class D), the controller changed shift and the replacement had a big go at me for being in Class D with no “C”. As I was 2/3 of the way across the zone it seemed sensible to apologise and just keep going. This is the only time I have had any problem. I am also aware of a lot of non transponder aircraft visiting L2K with no problem, but the French could start to enforce the rules at any time, and any near miss with an airliner would get you into a lot of bother.

Fitting a cheap second hand mode “C” unit before the March deadline (if technically possible) would appear to be a good investment.

Rod1

Paul Lowry · Post by **Paul Lowry** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:40 pm

Rod,

You wrote "Fitting a cheap second hand mode “C” unit before the March deadline (if technically possible) would appear to be a good investment."

Can I clarify this with you as I know you take a close interest in these matters, please.

I understood the March Deadline (if still enforced?) only applies to C of A aircraft - what's the score?

My new steed (in kit form) will not arrive before this deadline but my plan is to fit a Mode C TXR I have which I understand will see me through the next "few" years.

Regards,

CC

John Brady · Post by **John Brady** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:12 am

The regulations on transponders do indeed apply to all aircraft not just CofA. If you apply to put a transponder on your radio licence after 31 Mar 08, it will only be approved if it is on the CAA list of TSO mode S equipments. If your aeroplane is in build by 31 Mar 2008 an exemption may be available if you have a Mode A/C equipment already but that will only be good to 31 Mar 2012.

Anyone who has an aircraft in build who has concerns about this or who has already bought a Mode A/C for it should contact me off line via the LAA for advice.

John Brady

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:15 am

"I understood the March Deadline (if still enforced?) only applies to C of A aircraft - what's the score? "

All aircraft, with a probable exception if you are already building and have existing kit.

If you are C of A my idea above would probably be uneconomic as you would have to pay too much for the installation.

Rod1

Light Aircraft Association

International flights and Mode S

International flights and Mode S

TXR's

Mode S