There's some confusion over insurance requirements and LAA/Scout/ATC requirements.
Aircraft passenger and third party insurance requirements are laid down by CAA/EASA laws and depends on certain factors including the number of passengers carried.
The LAA has a policy to cover the Association in case there is a problem with the aircraft/pilot's insurance that wasn't picked up for some reason. This is to protect the LAA against potentially large claims if they (or organising Strut members) were found to have been negligent in any way - eg in checking documents. There is also insurance to cover a situation where the organisers are negligent in something they do or fail to do - a stand blowing over or collapsing maybe. Hopefully everything is covered to an appropriate level so a catastrophic claim cannot destroy the LAA.
The LAA has specified certain matters that need to be addressed when organising any flying events, and have a particular set of advice and instructions for Young Aviator events. That's detailed on the website, including the minimum experience and currency as mentioned above. It is there as additional reference information, and will no doubt be amended in due course as the situation changes.
The Scout Association has its own regulations for flying scouts; the experience and currency requirements are more severe than for the LAA, and were agreed at a meeting of scout aviation activity officers some years ago. The ATC followed similar requirements, but are looking closer at them following some fatal accidents last year.
It is ultimately the responsibility of the organisation with the members benefitting from the flying to ensure that the pilots and aircraft involved conform to their standards. theiur insurance will require that. LAA members should ensure they comply with the LAA advice and rules to protect the LAA from claims.
At the moment a meeting is being sought to try to agree a set of realistic requirements for free flights given to members of the public at an organised event, which will try to settle the confusion.
It is hoped that if the CAA can approve a set of conditions that is appropriate for these events, they will be adopted by other organisations, but any organisation involved in an event could obviously impose their own additional conditions if they wished.
As far as the Sywell YA event recently, that was run by Y.E.S. Strut members with help from MKAS volunteers and of course pilots. It was an LAA event, just as any Strut event is if it is properly notified to HQ, a risk assessment supplied and it is run according to the advice and instructions as mentioned elsewhere.
ATC - yoof, not controllers
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
From previous threads, the legal requirements are minimums only.Dave Hall wrote: Aircraft passenger and third party insurance requirements are laid down by CAA/EASA laws and depends on certain factors including the number of passengers carried.
The existing insurance letter on the LAA website states that YA top-up insurance cover is contingent (on the pilot’s insurance), and only provides a top up of £2m should a claim exceed the pilots own level of cover. If the pilots insurance is invalidated for any reason, the implication is that there is no top-up cover either. This seems at odds with the policy you describe. Have things changed?The LAA has a policy to cover the Association in case there is a problem with the aircraft/pilot's insurance that wasn't picked up for some reason.
My aircraft is under construction so I haven't dipped my toe in the a/c insurance market so far. From G-INFO, the minimum for my aircraft is £1.6m combined single limit, whereas the record for a personal injury claim in the UK currently stands at a shade under £14m awarded to a cyclist following long term disability after an accident.
Similar injuries could easily be sustained in an aircraft mishap. My concern is that the minimum levels may not be enough to protect my estate - but what level of cover is reasonable?
The LAA risk analysis has resulted in a top-up of £2m above minimum as being enough to protect the LAA for YA. I'm not sure that there is much difference between flying friends or friends of friends and passengers on behalf of the LAA so is that a more appropriate benchmark?
I guess that most members have minimums on the basis of cost rather than personal risk reduction. Any thoughts appreciated.
Chris
032850
EC Regulation 785/2004 as enacted by The Civil Aviation (Insurance) Regulations 2005 specifies the minimum liability cover required expressed in SDR's according to the MTOM of the aircraft.
For Third Parties, this is:-
<500kg – 0.75 million SDR's
<1000kg – 1.5 million SDR's
<2700kg – 3.0 million SDR's
The EC regulation for passenger liability states that the limit per passenger should be 250,000 SDR's but for aircraft under 2700kg the member state can set a lower limit providing the cover is at least 100,000 SDR's per passenger. The Civil Aviation (Insurance) Regulations 2005 enacts this lower level of cover.
A passenger liability limit of 100,000 SDR's is totally and utterly inadequate.
Fortunately most policies have their indemnity limit expressed as a combined limit for both Third Party and Passengers which provides a reasonable compromise. As to what limit you should have, that usually comes down to what you can afford but a reasonable starting figure might be £5m.
Only the aircraft owner/operator is subject to having to comply with The Civil Aviation (Insurance) Regulations 2005.
At the moment one SDR (Special Drawing Right) is valued at £0.98
For Third Parties, this is:-
<500kg – 0.75 million SDR's
<1000kg – 1.5 million SDR's
<2700kg – 3.0 million SDR's
The EC regulation for passenger liability states that the limit per passenger should be 250,000 SDR's but for aircraft under 2700kg the member state can set a lower limit providing the cover is at least 100,000 SDR's per passenger. The Civil Aviation (Insurance) Regulations 2005 enacts this lower level of cover.
A passenger liability limit of 100,000 SDR's is totally and utterly inadequate.
Fortunately most policies have their indemnity limit expressed as a combined limit for both Third Party and Passengers which provides a reasonable compromise. As to what limit you should have, that usually comes down to what you can afford but a reasonable starting figure might be £5m.
Only the aircraft owner/operator is subject to having to comply with The Civil Aviation (Insurance) Regulations 2005.
At the moment one SDR (Special Drawing Right) is valued at £0.98
Last edited by John Dean on Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.