Permit First Issue

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Sun May 22, 2011 9:15 pm

Is it normal for the paperwork for a permit to fly to lie with the LAA for over a month with no feedback?

Gerry Holland · Post by **Gerry Holland** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:25 pm

I wouldn't say it's particularly normal but it can and does happen.
It's possible to talk to someone in Engineering between 2pm and 4pm to see what the hold up is. If it's a less common Aircraft some delays can happen if any specification added is new to LAA. Make a call.
Regards
Gerry

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:06 am

Thanks Gerry,

Being new to the LAA and finding my feet with aircraft permitting and inspection I have been a bit worried about the time being taken to process.
All the paperwork and requests made have been fully completed, seeing other people get ( admittedly renewals) permits returned within 2-5 days does make the nerves jangle.

If there was or is a problem for such an extensive delay I would have thought getting in touch with the customer to explain the whys and wherefores etc would be done as a matter of course.

Not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling at the moment. I have limited time at home due to work commitments and hope to make best use of it enjoying my new hobby. Now looks like I will be on a paperchase.

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:29 am

Do you know that the LAA actually received your paperwork. Did you put the correct postage on the package.

Gerry Holland · Post by **Gerry Holland** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:31 am

Make that call. Unless you are in dialogue already with some communication rules in place you will wait a long time before contact to you is made. The LAA are busy but the speed of Renewals which is excellent cannot be matched or indicative of the speed of initial Permit. The CAA are in this loop too so paperwork trail is extended. Call this afternoon with Registration Details and Membership No. and I'm sure you will be heartened by response and things will move forward.
Regards
Gerry

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:50 am

Morning,

Bill yes as a group we know the paperwork was with LAA ( registered delivery) but inspector was about to go on a short holiday but that was over a month ago now 19th April.

I was expecting a turnaround of 14 days as opposed to a renewal of 2-5 days, so add a week in for the holiday and I thought I would hear something by week 3.

Is it that this could be the busy period a greater amount of new builds completed through the winter? Which is a good thing.

I'll give a call this afternoon if comms are working. I'll let you know the outcome.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Mon May 23, 2011 10:48 am

I think 4 weeks is normal for a first permit

Rod1

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:46 pm

the CAA loop is usually a few days. You can see when they have done their bit as the permit validity dates will appear on G-INFO. Last time I was in that situation it still took 12 days to go back through the LAA and on to me. That included two weekends and a bank holiday.

There may be a backlog at the CAA at the moment. They recently asked for insurance verification which I promptly email them 11 days before it expired. By the time they came to review it it had expired and they then chased my broker to get a copy of the renewed policy.

Don't know if permit issue is in the same queue as insurance but........

I too am waiting on another first permit but I am not holding my breath.

Rans6....

mikehallam · Post by **mikehallam** » Mon May 23, 2011 2:29 pm

BTW.

We're LAA members, not 'customers' !

mikehallam

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:54 pm

LOL.....when I pay my membership I'm a member.

When I pay for a service I'm a customer!! So we are both.

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Tue May 24, 2011 1:19 pm

Latest update, there was a bit of a delay due to different propeller ( DUC Swirl) but application should be sent to CAA this week.

So things should be back on track hopefully.

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:39 pm

rans6andrew wrote:
I too am waiting on another first permit but I am not holding my breath.

Have you checked G-INFO? I can see my papers arrived there on the 19th and are expected to be dealt with tomorrow.

I'm quite pleased, as the results of the test flying were received by LAA Engineering on the 10th, and there was a slight delay due to a non-compliant transponder test.

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Wed May 25, 2011 6:26 pm

I think the process at the LAA involves more than one person but they don't work on each application "together". My application was "being looked at" last Monday, I was informed by email from FD. When I phoned yesterday one of the engineering admin staff told me it was with JV, at the top of his pile and would be looked at next. The info today, by email, is that it is all signed up and will go to the CAA in electronic form this afternoon.

After they took 27 days to verify my insurance I emailed the CAA registrations department to ask if the permit turnaround was in the same queue as the insurance verifications......

Their answer was evasive to the point that I have no idea how long it might take them to deal with my permit......

And then it has to go back to the LAA and work it's way back to the top of someones in-tray......

I might have it in time for Spamfield.......

I am keeping my old Rans ready to stand in, I really don't want to be going to the IOW by ferry.

Rans6...

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu May 26, 2011 10:00 am

I think Ron that this thread has principally been about first issue Permits. By their very nature they demand a deal more work than a typical renewal, which 99% of our members will agree they get a very fast turnaround of, usually a couple of days provided there are no anomolies with either the aircraft or the paperwork.
I can honestly say that over the years I have followed up a good many complaints over delays, and invariably I find that I only ever get half the story. The delays are generally (but I agree not always) caused because people do not fill out the paperwork correctly, or fail to provide all the required information, and then when they are asked for it it is they who drag their heels in providing it. Ergo the permit takes a couple of months and it is, of course, nobody's fault but the LAA's.
There's always a fine balance between service levels and cost, I believe we have a reasonable balance but accept there will always be the odd glitch in the system, we are all human after all. We could of course hike the permit fees by £30 and employ another engineer, but I'm not so sure that would be universally popular. Worth considering when you talk about costs and service levels is that a CAA Permit for a two seat gyro cost £400, so our two day turnaround for less than half that for a two seat aeroplane doesn't look too sad at all.
I hope our IT and web upgrades will enable on-line status tracking of a number of Engineering functions before too long, I would be the first to agree we are well behind the drag curve in getting such systems in place, but as has been said here before, we are on the case and will be making radical changes and improvements in due course.