Permit First Issue

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Thu May 26, 2011 12:05 pm

One of the issues is that you send in your paperwork and then after a few days, if you are lucky, you get a confirmation postcard which tells you it has not got lost in the post.

And then............................................................................................................................

You don't know who is going to deal with it, when they might get around to it, you don't know how many people are going to look at it, in what order, how deep their in trays are running etc, etc.

You just aren't kept in the loop to know what is happening. You don't want to keep ringing and bugging the engineering staff to find out what is going on as this might just add to the delays and might get your application moved back down the queue?

If there are any issues and they can be sorted quickly, do you then go back to the bottom of the queue again? I guess this would be fair but it might be better to get it back in front an engineer while it is still fresh in his or her mind to speed things up.

And then there is the CAA turnaround.........................

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:39 am

Aaaaaarrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!

when I wrote "And then there is the CAA turnaround........................." I was not joking.

I just chased the CAA Applications and Approvals department. I was put on hold for a long time but I could hear the flurry of activity in the background. Much repeating of my registration letters across the office, paper moving, frantic keyboard entry and eventually "here it is".

It would seem that it was sent electronically, from the LAA, directly to someone who has been OFF SICK for a week.

Some apologies followed by "We will deal with it and it will go out in the post tomorrow".

Maybe.

Rans6....

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:40 pm

Andrew!! Must have got the same sick bloke, paperwork is out in the ether somewhere no one knows, thats 6 weeks hangarage and six weeks insurance payments (£378 approx) , for a dust covered hangar ornament. I only have 3 weeks leave left and it's not looking good.

I now don't expect to get any flying done until early August. I can now understand why you sometimes hear of rogue elements who flaunt the rules and say bugger the bureaucrats I'm off flying.

Not that I would in any way condone that type of act I can now just understand why it could happen...

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Tue May 31, 2011 4:43 pm

Hi Brian, I have checked with Engineering and your paperwork is also with CAA, and the lady that was off sick is now back at work so you should get your Permit soon.

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Obviously the CAA got an earful today, because when I first phoned they admitted the lady who had 'opened' my case was off sick last week, but she was busy and would call me back.

As the call did not materialise, I phoned again and lady gave me the excuse that an LAA (AMM?) form was missing, but they had now received it and my permit would be mailed by first class (!) tomorrow.

I don't believe for one minute that an LAA form was missing, because G-INFO shows that that my papers arrived on 19 May and that the expected date of processing was 25 May.

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:58 pm

What is most frustrating about this is that by the time the paperwork goes off to the CAA there can be nothing wrong with the aircraft. It has been inspected and passed by the inspector, the paperwork for the build has been checked by the LAA who have decided that the aircraft has been built and is in fit state for test flying. The aircraft is then test flown and compared with others of the type to make sure that it really is built and rigged correctly.

In my case, the aircraft was flown by FD and confirmed to be in good order.

So by now the aircraft has been shown to be correctly built and does in fact fly how it should do and then the paperwork goes off to the CAA.

By now the aircraft MUST be right for normal use.

So, why can we not go flying normally, let the paperwork catch up at it's own pace?

The arrival of the permit does not add anything to the aircraft condition and does not bring any information or operating limitations you don't already have visibility of, nothing.

A pointless delay beyond your control.

Rans6.....

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:12 pm

ps; my paperwork was with the CAA on 25th May, it still does not show this on G-INFO. I doubt that they will complete it tomorrow. Perhaps they meant Wednesday the 8th.

Rans6....

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:45 am

Haha, apparently, even the CAA think my aircraft is good to go, the permit is now showing valid until 23 May 2012 but I'm still not allowed to go flying until I get it in paper format.............

Yawn.

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:32 am

Mine is showing valid until 17-5-2012, so I have effectively paid for a permit for a year and only got 50 weeks, if the paper format is not delayed.

bri663 · Post by **bri663** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:57 am

Hope the lady at the CAA is doing well.

Our permit now shows valid from the 24/05/2011. Thanks I'm guessing to Brian Hope who is chasing this up from the LAA end I assume. Thank you Brian and anyone else helping out.

Now hopefully just a 1st class stamp, some flyable weather and hopefully get to Oban next week for their week long open invitiation.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:07 am

Though I have no direct involvement in the Engineering processes, I do askthe ever helpful staff if there is a problem with a particular permit or whatever when 'problems' arise.
First point to make is that we send permit documents to the relevant CAA department address, not to a specific person who may be off sick or out of the office.
Second point is that Brian's application was held up by several build and flight test queries, and Engneering were in regular contact with another part owner who sent in the paperwork to resolve those queries. Clearly when there are queries with the paperwork there will be delays.
Third, it was mentioned that acknowledgement cards were sent out re postal correspondence and this is not actually the case. 90% of acknowledgements are made by email, only the remainder are posted because Engineering does not have an appropriate email address.
Finally, the good news, 12 outstanding permits arrived from CAA yesterday and were, as is usual, turned around straight away and posted out. Included were those for Brian, Don Walker and Andrew Cattell. Hopefully they will drop through the lettrbox later today and they will be able to enjoy what looks like being a very nice weekend's flying weather for most of the country.

rans6andrew · Post by **rans6andrew** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:50 am

Thanks for the update Brian. It looks as though I might be able to go further than the test area, perhaps to a fly-in somewhere this weekend. Now, let me see, where might I go? Oh yes, Brimpton, Oh, that is where it is hangared,. Shouldn't use too much fuel getting to there!

Perhaps the other lucky permit winners might want to do Brimpton on Sunday? All welcome.

Rans6andrew.

mikehallam · Post by **mikehallam** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:29 am

Sturgate, Linc's (free)

or Damyn's Hall (£6) Sat & Sun

Or Brimpton > Jackrell's Farm > Brimpton ?

mike hallam

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:24 pm

Thanks to Engineering for the quick turnaround of my permit, which has just arrived.

So it's a flight around East Sussex/Kent this afternoon and lunch at Old Warden, with a visit to the Shuttleworth collection, tomorrow.