Coaching Scheme

[Chris Martyr]

If the PCS were to be abandoned, with the advice to, " Go and find an instructor with a tailwheel ticket wherever you can". Then we would have a less onerous accessible system.

Being the tower of tact and diplomacy that I am.
Would I be right in thinking that what old Trev meant was that one could by-pass the services of the PCS in favour of an independent establishment.
Answers on a postcard to ChrisMartyrMediatingServicesLtd,,,,,,, : :

[Brian Hope]

Not wanting to prolong any angst, I'll do my best to read Trevor's post as you suggest Chris.
I'm happy that you like the LAA Trevor, despite me, and will do my best not to respond to comments in your posts that I could possibly have misconstrued.
Have a nice weekend.
Rgds, Brian

[Trevor Harvey]

Gentlemen.
What old Trev was trying to say was. If the PCS was not there, and never had been, then we would not be a great deal worse off regarding the availability of instructors, those instructors that would be available to us would have required less flight time/qualifications than the instructors that the PCS would accept. I am not in any way suggesting we abandon the PCS Definately not
Perhaps I should point out that I was born English, brung up in deepest West Sussex. So I know what youse guys is up against.
And if any of you can drag yourselves up to 56North, including Brian, give me a buzz and I'll buy the beer

[P5151]

Sorry Guys, I have been a bit busy with Brexit so have not responded to posts.

Bottom line here is that basically everyone apart from on contributor is singing from the same song sheet.... That PCS needs reform. We like PCS we appreciate those who give up their time.... But

The over the top entry requirements need looking at, and possible CRI help being offered to suitable candidates.

I am beginning to feel that this is a bit like the pre Brexit renotiation Cameron took on, where those in charge were refusing to give him anything meaningful. Well we can't have a referendum but we can keep on pressing for change!

[Chris Martyr]

I'm happy that you like the LAA Trevor, despite me,

Brian, we all like the LAA mate !.... ....... [ despite you ]

[P5151]

Brian is one of the best ambassadors for the LAA, we don't always agree but I would not want an LAA without him!


Now Mr PCS can we expect a more open minded approach from you or do I move to stage two and write a magazine article?

[Trevor Harvey]

No answer from the top yet.
Did the forum go off in the huff yesterday, or was it just this iPad?

[B Davies]

Gentlemen,

I have been monitoring this very useful discussion but not poking my nose in so far. The message is clear. This has been discussed by the board and Steve Slater and I have talked to Jon Cooke about how we can make better use of the PCS. We all want to expand the availability and capability of the PCS. Jon does not want to lower the standards and we have to respect his opinion and work with him to find a way forward. You have all made some very useful contributions that now need to be considered carefully.

Please carry on discussing the subject but don't expect immediate action. We need time to think this through. Also remember that we are mainly volunteers so simply demanding change does not always have the desired effect!

Brian Davies
Chairman

[Chris Martyr]

Your contribution is most welcome Brian and the more people who want to poke their noses in the better as far as I am concerned.
Also , I'm sure that no contributors here are expecting an instant fix to this , but what most people here will appreciate is the fact that yourself and Steve Slater may just have made the possibility of a bit of dialogue here with the upper end of the PCS. They certainly weren't interested in exchanging anything with anyone on here !
I would also like to say to Steve [p5151] that mentioning this topic in LA magazine is a must. Not because of "stirring things up" , but because only a small minority of the membership actually partake in the Forum and it is very important that all LAA members have this brought to their attention , as it could be construed that the PCS' current custodians aren't necessarily acting in the best interest of the membership with their current policy . That has already been demonstrated by guys in this discussion , the ones who reside in regions where PCS coaches are few and far between.
What Jon says about maintaining high standards , as far as I can see , is just a bit of 'smoke and mirrors' ! Nobody , and I repeat ,,,NOBODY is talking about lowering any standards , but if they are happy to snub people who they should be taking on board and then trying to dress it up to look like it's a lowering of standards , then perhaps there are certain elements in this problem that do require an instant fix.
I have to repeat that I have absolutely no axe to grind here and have no desire whatsoever to be either an Instructor or a Coach , but there are people who do have a lot to offer the membership and probably a membership very grateful to receive their knowledge and experience .
The LAA is poorer for them not being able to do this from within !

[P5151]

Brian

Thanks for your response. You know I have a great deal of respect for you and your flying, as I have said before I wish I was half as good as you. Everyone who has contributed have mad e the point that they appreciate our volunteers who are a credit to the association.

However. The problem remains an over the top entry level into PCS, which bears no resemblance to the requirements to become a BMAA instructor. A shortage of coaches and members doing off system coaching to help other members.

I have politely suggested that PCS could have a look at the people doing the off system coaching apparently successfully and consider them as potential PCS coaches. What we have is a blunt refusal to accept there is a problem, and a refusal to consider a change in approach from one person.

If you want people to respect a system that system hast to be fair well considered and achievable, I and obviously a number of members do not think that it currently is, and because of that it is regarded as an under resourced elite by a number of people who have emailed me.

I have now written a letter for the magazine to expand this discussion further but was hoping for a positive response before sending it off. I am prepared to hold off while the board discusses this issue but will not do so indefinitely.

Best regards
Steve

[Trevor Harvey]

As has been said, no one is suggesting a lowering of standards.
This is a case of accepting talent, expertise, experience rather than fixating on book regulated qualifications.
Who would be more use to the budding strip flyer between an Airline training Captain of thousands of hours but none on grass and never flown a single piston since his PPL and an ex crop duster with a knack of being able to pass on his skills?

[Chris Martyr]

The airline pilot thing is a complete irrelevance Trevor .
They come in as many shapes and sizes as everyone else does mate ! Some will head off to the golf club on their days off , some have got garages with vintage motorbikes or cars,,,,,,,,,but none of that actually has the slightest bearing on their ability to share their aviation knowledge and experience .
If a guy makes him/herself available to the PCS and has a lot of good things to offer others , then why should he have to justify himself to the PCS Grand Masters if he just happens to also have 15,000hrs going back and forth across the pond on autopilot ?
Apart from the latest generation of guys who have been fast-tracked straight from their paper-round and into the Cessna/Warrior factory and then straight into the right hand seat of an A320 , there still remain an awful lot of good people who could be really useful to the PCS , and having to make the statement that commercial hours don't count, says as much about the PCS as the other ridiculous garbage regarding the 1,000[ish] hrs requirement !
Are there one or two frail ego's in play here ? I don't know ! But what I do know though , is that they could drop out of the equation tomorrow [pretty much like you said Trevor} and not many would notice the difference.
But if they could just take a deep breath and re-assess, then perhaps they , and other LAA members could take advantage of what they were put there for in the first place .

[Trevor Harvey]

I'm not going to start another post with "What I meant was".
My daughter is an instructor, and a very good one, she has been instructing for 15 years.
However she can't fly a taildragger, nor a nose wheel for that matter. She instructs in horse riding.
A friend of mine is a driving instructor. He has a share in a C152 and a LAPL.
None of that is relevant either is it?
The airline training Captain can't check me out in my aircraft cos it has a tailwheel, though he can check a Concorde Captain for his IR.
The sun is out, the wind has dropped, so I'm going to try to tighten up my circuits.
Have a nice day at the office guys

[P5151]

Hi Guys,

No surprise, no response from the guy who thinks having 1000 hours is a guide to flying and instructing ability and that maintenance of this keeps up standards of coaches?


So, I will tweak my letter to the editor a bit and hopefully we will stir up some more responses in the magazine!

[Brian Hope]

Your examples are absolutely true Trevor, but many airline captains have PPLs as well as their ATPLs and fly light aircraft for fun. Many are also instructors because, as Chris explained, they built hours instructing to gain their commercial licences. Many have continued to instruct on light aircraft in their spare time because they enjoy doing so.
Nobody is arguing that an airline pilot who has never been an instructor is automatically going to make a good coach, of course he isn't. But let's give credit to those ATPLs that have retained an enthusiasm for recreational aviation instruction and willingly pass on their experience.
Best rgds, Brian