Tracey Curtis-Taylor

[C Rule]

here here

[Chris Martyr]

I find Nigel's post very interesting. Simply from the point of view that there could be many more of Nigel's disposition amongst the membership. I.E. Old-school LAA'ers getting on with their favourite pastime with little view towards the press/media type of politicking and who may just be unaware of the fact that our favourite organisation may just have a little bit of egg on its face !
I think that one can reasonably assume that if members were to be polled on this , then a very large majority would not be very happy with the current status quo either.
I've stated before on here that I personally don't want to see a witch hunt against the LAA and I'm not baying for blood and don't want heads brought in on a plate..........BUT ,,,,Totally ignoring it is not an option either ! ! !
This has been dragging on for some time now and on the eve of Sywell 2016 it is starting to become a bit of an embarrassment . Some kind of announcement needs to be made , not to appease a baying mob, or to poke TC-T in the eye , but just to ease a bit of pressure from this rather bubbling cauldron that we now have .
Thankfully , the debate on here has been pretty civilised , but my attention has been drawn elsewhere recently and believe me , this isn't going to just go away.
This woman courts embarrassment and controversy wherever she has been and is best dropped like a hot brick .
And the longer you try to keep hold of that hot brick the more you'll get your fingers burnt .
Sorry hierarchy if this is a bit blunt [not that they're reading this] but this has all the makings of a cracker of a weekend , so some sort of acknowledgment might just help throw a damp cloth over the bubbling cauldron.

[samrutherford]

Where do you think she'll hang this...?

[Paul Catanach]

I don't want this turning into another PPRuNe-like thread. That's a dark and nasty place and there are reasons I left it after many years of membership.

Nor am I looking to point the finger of blame. There is no blame, people were hoodwinked.

However....

My own take is that at the time the LAA, like most others, had no reason to doubt TCT's story. She was plausible and her economy with the truth was, in my opinion, deliberately done to cloud matters. I hear third hand that there might be 'legal' reasons why HCAP cannot or will not withdraw their awards. What they are I neither know nor care, I am not a member there and nor would I care to be. I do however get the impression that there is a fair degree of closing ranks going on with them.

And to some degree I feel the same here. While I appreciate Steve Slater taking the time to reply to my initial query as to the LAA's view now I do rather feel that as members those of us with an interest deserve slightly more respect (or attention perhaps) when airing our views. Have the commitee considered this on an official basis or has it been done in a chat over the office water cooler? Do the membership, many of whom have no idea what has been done with their subs, get a say? Would they be happy with the decision?

The most intriguing question for me is, why not? Why does our commitee feel this award cannot be withdrawn? Is this something for the AGM? I may be about to attend my first to ask the question. I may be wrong but if I am that is only because I have had to reach a conclusion based upon very little (ie, almost no) information.

All put forward in a polite, calm manner.

[mikehallam]

I second Paul's measured opinion.

Although this forum isn't the only means of members' contact, never-the-less it is the vehicle of communication for a great many LAA folk.

In daring to actually ask for a considered answer to this 'hot potato', should it not be dealt with on behalf of we LAA shareholders with the greatest attention to a fair and accurate analysis.

mike hallam (member since ca. 1970.)

[samrutherford]

With reference to the earlier picture of TCT holding her 'solo' certificate from the Australian Women Pilot's Association, they have subsequently confirmed that:

1. They believed she had flown solo to Australia.
2. They are now looking into the allegations that she was not solo.

It will be interesting to see what they do when they see that the basis on which they made their decision is found to be incorrect.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Paul, provided you are a current member you are perfectly at liberty to attend the AGM (22 October at Sywell) and either ask an informal question in the post AGM chat, or propose a motion to be dealt with during the actual AGM business. The latter must be notified a minimum 42 days in advance of the meeting, so that is on or before 11 September. Motions must be presented in accordance with the Articles of the Association which can be found under the Who we Are tab on the home page.

Why does our commitee feel this award cannot be withdrawn?

At no time have I heard that the committee feel this award cannot be withdrawn. The awards committee, of which I am a member, decided to let things stand because despite the fact that it came to light that a passenger was carried, it still ranked as a meritorious flight. Yes we can nit-pick about solo navigation but these days navigation is mainly a question of turning on your GPS, so the 'skilled navigation' side of long distance flying is very much a moot point.

Have the commitee considered this on an official basis or has it been done in a chat over the office water cooler?

The Awards Committee tend not to meet at Chequers, Camp David or even Turweston. It is just three of us that live in disparate parts of the country and communicate by phone and email. We have all been around the Association for a long time and thus tend to know what goes on, so we can add names to our potential recipients lists for LAA, RAeC and FAI awards. We also ask amongst the Struts, Clubs and in the magazine now and again for members to nominate people who they feel are worthy of consideration.
From the lists we establish those we feel are worthy of putting forward and citations are written and presented to whichever organisation the award is being presented by. For LAA awards we decide ourselves who should win the awards.
I read a couple of emails on this thread accusing the committee of not carrying out due diligence, and now perhaps we are closing ranks. This isn't MI5, it's three volunteers trying to do their best to see that LAA members get due recognition, and that is based on the evidence we have at the time.

Do the membership, many of whom have no idea what has been done with their subs, get a say? Would they be happy with the decision?

Members can write in about this or any other issue and the Association does its very best to respond, and Steve has done so more than once on this matter. Like most organisations, LAA members vote for a major committee - in our case the Board - and they then do their best to provide members with what they want, often via internally appointed smaller committees taking on certain tasks. Members can certainly complain to the Board that the awards committee is a waste of space or is not doing its job properly and I suppose in extremis, if the Board agree they can 'let us go'. Unfortunately we have never had a surfeit of volunteers to sit on committees, so the end result, unless those who want change step up to the plate themselves, will probably be that the awards system dies a death and simply doesn't happen any more.
As far as members' subs go, we are unpaid volunteers who, as mentioned earlier, work from home. Cost - zilch.
Rgds, Brian.

[Chris Martyr]

A simple question :

Do the Awards Committee still believe that Tracey Curtis-Taylor is a meritworthy and deserving recipient of the Bill Woodhams Trophy ?

A short and concise straight answer without any cutting and pasting or going around the houses please !

[Alan Kilbride]

I really do see the depth of feeling towards this debacle, but hope the sympathetic and understanding nature of the members of the LAA don't make this in to a witch hunt.

The world in which this lady lives is not mine and she would not be welcome in it.
The way she keeps on gaining fame is quite bewildering, but are there really so many gullible people?

[Paul Catanach]

Brian, thanks for taking the time to reply. All I really wanted to know was how these things are discussed in the Sywell bunker and what kind of attention this had been given since the truth came out.

It's reassuring to know that you can discuss this semi-informally rather than over a five-course luncheon washed down with pints of Old Scrote but I'm still struggling with the decision that the way in which the Award was obtained (ie, deceptively) has no bearing. I take your point that navigation now is so much easier but surely that makes my/our case stronger. If navigation is a doddle why give an award?

After the event we found out that whole trip was conducted with a back-up team, sponsored to the degree that accomodation was 5-star and for 99.9% of the time the pilot was accompanied by a 15,000 (?) ATPL. I assume that little to none of this was known originally but now that it has come to light, and at least some of what is known now was concealed, do we feel that the trophy was deserved?



PS I do really appreciate those who give up their free time to volunteer. Sadly, still being in full-time employment which takes me out of the country for up to twenty days a month I am not in a position to help out (for now).

[Brian Hope]

Hi Paul, the fact that a back up team was in place was known from the start as it was made clear that a documentary was going to be made of the journey. It was the fact that a passenger was carried on the aircraft after it had been touted as a solo flight that has caused the furore.
It comes down to personal opinion at the end of the day, the committee decided the flight remained worthy of recognition despite the deception.
I think I have explained the situation adequately and have nothing more to add.
Brian.

[Paul Catanach]

Brian. Forgive me but I can't make sense of this.

To a degree yes, people became upset when the 'non-solo' status was revealed but was not the LAA award given for a feat of navigation?

If the award was made in the full knowledge that little to no navigational skill was involved, why? If the GPS fit came to light afterward then the committee were misled and surely are justified in reviewing the thing?

I am sorry to be so persistent but (setting aside the dishonesty aspect) I really am unable to get my head around an award being given for a feat of navigation when you, a member of the awards committee, have written:

... these days navigation is mainly a question of turning on your GPS, so the 'skilled navigation' side of long distance flying is very much a moot point.

It really is not my intention to create unpleasantness but barring answers to the above it seems the only way is, as you describe, for a member to make the proposal for it to be raised at the AGM. Do we really need to go that far?

[Brian Hope]

I did say there was no more to say but the GPS issue is relevant. We have to be realistic and since the Bill Woodhams Trophy was instigated a good many years ago, navigation techniques have been greatly changed by GPS. I don't doubt most, if not all the winners of the award in recent years have used GPS; do we exclude them all for 'cheating' or accept that navigation is different now? The committee has to use a degree of pragmatism and has taken the view that an adventurous flight is still a worthy challenge for an amateur pilot regardless of whether GPS is used, after all trans-continental flights by light aircraft are still comparatively rare.
By all means raise the matter at the AGM and seek to have the awards committee's decision overturned if you believe that is necessary. Personally I don't believe that will make the world a better place but this is a members' organisation, run by the members, for the members and those of us that choose to volunteer to be involved in its day to day affairs are not infallible.
Now I really am going to shut up.

[samrutherford]

Hi Brian,

You have referred a few times to her 'passenger'.

You are presumably aware that it is Ewald Gritsch who:

Is her instructor
Has some 20K+ flying hours
Rebuilt the plane
Did and does all the maintenance on the plane
Owns the plane

Does this not make him a little more than just 'passenger'? I think, at the very least, he should be described as co-pilot...

[Chris Martyr]

Does this not make him a little more than just 'passenger'? I think, at the very least, he should be described as co-pilot...

And made to be co-recipient of the Bill Woodhams Trophy....Whether he likes it or not...
Call back the engravers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOW..