AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
We down here in the West Country have all but lost all availability of Mogas without any Ethanol.
It is now not possible to buy Mogas West of Exeter which does not contain at least 5% Ethanol.
Trying to stay street legal and fuel the aircraft on Avgas means at least a 35 minute flight to uplift fuel. When you only have a 50 litre tank this can become a nonsense which then means carrying extra tanks inside the aircraft.
Has anybody any recent experience with Warter Aviation who will deliver four drums on a pallet.
Chris.
It is now not possible to buy Mogas West of Exeter which does not contain at least 5% Ethanol.
Trying to stay street legal and fuel the aircraft on Avgas means at least a 35 minute flight to uplift fuel. When you only have a 50 litre tank this can become a nonsense which then means carrying extra tanks inside the aircraft.
Has anybody any recent experience with Warter Aviation who will deliver four drums on a pallet.
Chris.
Christopher Howell
030005
030005
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Any progress from LAA regarding Mogas in small continentals as stated in Brian's post below 15 months ago?
Brian Hope » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:22 am
Hi John et al, in the August issue of magazine we will be publishing an article from Engineering about the approval of using mogas with 5% ethanol in Rotax, VW and some Jabiru-engined 'Group A' type aircraft. It will explain what needs to be checked/changed re fuel systems and engines. This will be the first of what is hoped will be an approvals path for any more LAA aircraft. Small Continentals will possibly follow on later in the year.
A Technical Leaflet will also be published in due course.
Brian Hope » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:22 am
Hi John et al, in the August issue of magazine we will be publishing an article from Engineering about the approval of using mogas with 5% ethanol in Rotax, VW and some Jabiru-engined 'Group A' type aircraft. It will explain what needs to be checked/changed re fuel systems and engines. This will be the first of what is hoped will be an approvals path for any more LAA aircraft. Small Continentals will possibly follow on later in the year.
A Technical Leaflet will also be published in due course.
Christopher Howell
030005
030005
-
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Hi Chris, as you are no doubt aware the article was published and became Technical Leaflet TL2-26 PROCEDURES FOR USE OF E5 UNLEADED MOGAS TO EN228
Having checked the TL it remains Issue 1, and the intention was that ongoing issues were going to add other engines cleared for E5 use to the list (subject to meeting certain criteria) as members' results from experimentation (via the mod system) provided the relevant information.
I will ask Engineering if any progress has been made on Continental and/or other commonly used engines in the fleet.
Rgds, Brian
Having checked the TL it remains Issue 1, and the intention was that ongoing issues were going to add other engines cleared for E5 use to the list (subject to meeting certain criteria) as members' results from experimentation (via the mod system) provided the relevant information.
I will ask Engineering if any progress has been made on Continental and/or other commonly used engines in the fleet.
Rgds, Brian
014011
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Many Thanks Brian.
Running our aircraft on Mogas with 5% Ethanol would make life a whole lot easier.
For me to uplift Avgas is a 30 minute flight and I only have a 12 gallon tank so to make the flight more practical I would have to carry cans inside the aircraft which I am never happy about.
Chris G-SAGE
Running our aircraft on Mogas with 5% Ethanol would make life a whole lot easier.
For me to uplift Avgas is a 30 minute flight and I only have a 12 gallon tank so to make the flight more practical I would have to carry cans inside the aircraft which I am never happy about.
Chris G-SAGE
Christopher Howell
030005
030005
-
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Hi Chris, unfortunately nobody has come forward to offer to carry out experimentation on running a small Continental on Mogas, and until more experience is gained, it is not possible to offer advice on what needs to be done to airframes and engines to ensure they run OK on Mogas. Engineering is considering an appeal in the magazine to seek more people to offer assistance in this area.
Rgds, Brian
Rgds, Brian
014011
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Hi Brian, this is a subject that interests me, having been instrumental in helping to get the use of mogas cleared for permit a/c back in the days of the PFA. I must have missed the invitation for volunteers to contribute to the survey of the use of mogas with ethanol in small Continentals but I'll certainly promote it through the Devon Strut and speak to Engineering about the practicalities required.
Mike Mold (007106)
Jodel D117A G-BFEH, Watchford Farm, Devon
Jodel D117A G-BFEH, Watchford Farm, Devon
- mikehallam
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
IMHO. There must be oodles of fliers who have successfully "tried" regular Mogas.
Of course they can't ever admit it !
Therefore their personal findings in long term use remain hidden, either for proper analysis or causal benefit of others, That's supposing my hypothesis is even partially true !
So tell me does Engineering actually see any difference in reliability or performance statistically which they know is from Mogas use ? Apart from those cases where the tanks or line materials, gaskets etc. are not up to motor car standards ?
mike hallam.
Of course they can't ever admit it !
Therefore their personal findings in long term use remain hidden, either for proper analysis or causal benefit of others, That's supposing my hypothesis is even partially true !
So tell me does Engineering actually see any difference in reliability or performance statistically which they know is from Mogas use ? Apart from those cases where the tanks or line materials, gaskets etc. are not up to motor car standards ?
mike hallam.
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Of course we know it's widespread common practice, Mike, but we need to formalise it in a study to make it legal.
Mike Mold (007106)
Jodel D117A G-BFEH, Watchford Farm, Devon
Jodel D117A G-BFEH, Watchford Farm, Devon
- mikehallam
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Well what a surprise - I don't think !
This feeble little thread subject went down like a lead balloon.
And no wonder as our honest LAA citizens resolutely keep their heads firmly below the parapet - hoping no-one will actually bother to expose them by trying to turn common practice into statistical evidence.
Happy Christmas,
mike hallam.
This feeble little thread subject went down like a lead balloon.
And no wonder as our honest LAA citizens resolutely keep their heads firmly below the parapet - hoping no-one will actually bother to expose them by trying to turn common practice into statistical evidence.
Happy Christmas,
mike hallam.
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
I seem to remember toucan buy something which removes the ethanol from mogas.
People will not raise their heads on this for fairly obvious reasons, legal and insurance liability to name but two. It seems fairly obvious to me that the people who need to volunteer as testers are the ones who need this sorted.
People will not raise their heads on this for fairly obvious reasons, legal and insurance liability to name but two. It seems fairly obvious to me that the people who need to volunteer as testers are the ones who need this sorted.
Steve Arnold
020667
020667
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
In for a penny, in for a pound.........
I have a Champ with an A65-8 that I bought in May. My aircraft is cleared for MoGas.
On speaking to a couple of pilot/owners local to me, they said they always use unleaded petrol, but only use Shell V-Power fuel in their small Continental engined aircraft.
So I started to run mine on it. Not solely but a mix of the Shell petrol, and Avgas from my local airport. All went ok for a couple of local flights, but during a flight on a warm day with the temp being 19 and dew point 17, I had severe vapour lock occur. The RPM started to 'hunt' by about 500 rpm and continued to do so. Fortunately the engine continued to run, and I made it back to land safely, but it scared the hell out of me.
I was very, very lucky
I have a Champ with an A65-8 that I bought in May. My aircraft is cleared for MoGas.
On speaking to a couple of pilot/owners local to me, they said they always use unleaded petrol, but only use Shell V-Power fuel in their small Continental engined aircraft.
So I started to run mine on it. Not solely but a mix of the Shell petrol, and Avgas from my local airport. All went ok for a couple of local flights, but during a flight on a warm day with the temp being 19 and dew point 17, I had severe vapour lock occur. The RPM started to 'hunt' by about 500 rpm and continued to do so. Fortunately the engine continued to run, and I made it back to land safely, but it scared the hell out of me.
I was very, very lucky
Sean Donno
041523
041523
Re: AVGAS WARTER AVIATION
Well at least you tried it and know you have an issue with your set up. You could
try and resolve or just buy the more expensive stuff. Seasons greetings. Wind should
be dropping so we can go flying Hurrah.
try and resolve or just buy the more expensive stuff. Seasons greetings. Wind should
be dropping so we can go flying Hurrah.
Mike Blyth
005633
005633