Background information to AGM tiered membership proposal
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howard bradley
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:32 am
- Location: Shropshire
Membership proposal
Hi Mike , No its not a case of Jump ship , but I would like the captain to tell me which way to steer , and tell me what course we were on , information requests have gone into the LAA and with only months away before the introduction of Ethanol , if the insurance can prove you have it in your fuel there will be no pay out , only microlights can use mogas with alcohol in the fuel . with respect to the Rotax engine Avgas is bad news so what is a Class A aeroplane going to be fueled with using a 912 or 914 engine ?
I'm glad I took the trouble to go to the AGM.I came away thinking that our future is in safe hands.As an ex exec member many years ago, I came away thinking that this commitee is very profesional.
My only real concern was ,looking around the room the average age was (at a guess) in excess of 65.
Clearly we all need to try to attract younger members if we are to suvive.
My only real concern was ,looking around the room the average age was (at a guess) in excess of 65.
Clearly we all need to try to attract younger members if we are to suvive.
John Cook
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Joe Iszard
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:36 pm
- Location: suffolk
JC wrote; My only real concern was ,looking around the room the average age was (at a guess) in excess of 65.
Clearly we all need to try to attract younger members if we are to survive.
I agree with JC - I fit in the + 65 range.
However, might I suggest that we (LAA) send to every school in the UK, free of charge, an LAA, Light Aviation Magazine with an accompanying letter suggesting they subscribe to the association (one membership) and receive a magazine each month for a year.
This might stimulate some of the children (or even the staff) to become interested in aviation.
Most people, on seeing an aeroplane fly over haven't got a clue who administers it existence.
So often I have been asked by a none flying member of the public, Do you have to ask someone for permission before you fly? (yes from my wife!)
Joe
Clearly we all need to try to attract younger members if we are to survive.
I agree with JC - I fit in the + 65 range.
However, might I suggest that we (LAA) send to every school in the UK, free of charge, an LAA, Light Aviation Magazine with an accompanying letter suggesting they subscribe to the association (one membership) and receive a magazine each month for a year.
This might stimulate some of the children (or even the staff) to become interested in aviation.
Most people, on seeing an aeroplane fly over haven't got a clue who administers it existence.
So often I have been asked by a none flying member of the public, Do you have to ask someone for permission before you fly? (yes from my wife!)
Joe
Joe Iszard
It has often been said in the past that the mag should be sold on the bookshelves.Maybe now is the time to revisit this idea ,after all the lower membership is being pitched at the approximate cost of a years subscription of a comparable mag,none of which can offer membership of an organisation anything like the LAA!
John Cook
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This is a very complex area and without a lot more data it is impossible to know if the changes will bring in the extra 10%, or even if a 10% increase in income is fair if inflation is going to be less than 1% and people are going to be out of work. I do however have a concern;
5 years ago our members average age was about 65. I have been told it had come down since, but not what to. If we assume that 40% of members are 65 or more, and most are paying “full membership” then there may be a problem. Most of the members in this category (3200 ish) may simply change to the senior (£33) rate. I know several people who are running aircraft and paying £33.
I would be very interested in a detailed breakdown on what the engineers spend time on. It seems to me that most permit aircraft are only involved with the LAA at permit renewal time and that this is normally just an administrative exercise.
Rod1
5 years ago our members average age was about 65. I have been told it had come down since, but not what to. If we assume that 40% of members are 65 or more, and most are paying “full membership” then there may be a problem. Most of the members in this category (3200 ish) may simply change to the senior (£33) rate. I know several people who are running aircraft and paying £33.
I would be very interested in a detailed breakdown on what the engineers spend time on. It seems to me that most permit aircraft are only involved with the LAA at permit renewal time and that this is normally just an administrative exercise.
Rod1
021864
With respect there is no point in keep chewing over the membership facts and figures,a vote was taken and passed.We must now trust those that give up their time to sort it all out.
Anyone that was THAT interested should have turned up! It's easy to let others do the work and then critisise afterwards.
Anyone that was THAT interested should have turned up! It's easy to let others do the work and then critisise afterwards.
John Cook
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Mike Cross
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:24 am
John
I'm sure Brian's been through the reasons before why the mag can't be sold through bookstalls. Competition for shelf space is high and the distributors won't handle it unless they know the sales volume is there.
The price comparators I gave were for postal subscriptions, which are generally lower than the cover price for the same number of issues.
While we could offer the mag on postal subscription it could effectively knacker the proposed "Full Membership" (as opposed to Plus). The new Full Membership gives you the magazine and a vote. The parsimonious might say "Mmmm... Magazine 35 quid a year, membership 50 quid a year, what do I need a vote for?"
I'm sure Brian's been through the reasons before why the mag can't be sold through bookstalls. Competition for shelf space is high and the distributors won't handle it unless they know the sales volume is there.
The price comparators I gave were for postal subscriptions, which are generally lower than the cover price for the same number of issues.
While we could offer the mag on postal subscription it could effectively knacker the proposed "Full Membership" (as opposed to Plus). The new Full Membership gives you the magazine and a vote. The parsimonious might say "Mmmm... Magazine 35 quid a year, membership 50 quid a year, what do I need a vote for?"
030881
Don't follow you there Mike.The reduced membership do have voting rights under the new proposals.Thats why they don't want to go to Associate because they have no such right.
Anyway ,as I said,we must trust the E C to get on with it now otherwise this thread will decompose into the usual winge session.
Anyone that thinks they have something worthwile would do better to contact the office direct, as postings on here will not have the same effect.
Anyway ,as I said,we must trust the E C to get on with it now otherwise this thread will decompose into the usual winge session.
Anyone that thinks they have something worthwile would do better to contact the office direct, as postings on here will not have the same effect.
John Cook
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Bill McCarthy
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Mike Cross
- Site Admin
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:24 am
John
What I was suggesting was that there's a danger that people who would otherwise go for membership just go for the subscription and we'd lose revenue. The vote is not particularly valued, as can be seen by the number who make it to the AGM.
We all appreciate that the extra revenue goes to fund the work that is done by the Association but the prospective member might be tempted to see it as a magazine sub £35, a magazine sub and a right to vote at the AGM £50. (Or if they are REALLY stingy enroll their child and get the mag for 12 quid a year!)
Your comment on Associate Membership is a bit of a red herring,the only one that's open to applicants is Student, which is restricted by age.
What I was suggesting was that there's a danger that people who would otherwise go for membership just go for the subscription and we'd lose revenue. The vote is not particularly valued, as can be seen by the number who make it to the AGM.
We all appreciate that the extra revenue goes to fund the work that is done by the Association but the prospective member might be tempted to see it as a magazine sub £35, a magazine sub and a right to vote at the AGM £50. (Or if they are REALLY stingy enroll their child and get the mag for 12 quid a year!)
Your comment on Associate Membership is a bit of a red herring,the only one that's open to applicants is Student, which is restricted by age.
030881
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Peter Harvey
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VAT indeed. I'm no VAT expert but...
We have our membership fee (but no VAT added thank goodness).
Centrally, we claim some VAT for items purchased (services, bills, etc) on the basis that we are 'part' VAT liable. There's a complex VAT arrangement based upon a deMinimis calculation whereby we claim some VAT, don't charge the memebrs any, but this is based upon the member receiving services amounting to much of the membership fee. Magazines are VAT exempt (or is that zero rated?) therefore, since the 'price' of the magazine is some £43.20, it covers the major part of your membership fee. Hence no VAT. Still with me?
BTW. The HMRC have charged the VAT element on the Rally discount (was that £5) for every member for the last couple of years! We've just claimed that back, but it's a classic example of unintended consequences when a simple discount to members is proposed as a'good thing' for the Rally.
Pete
We have our membership fee (but no VAT added thank goodness).
Centrally, we claim some VAT for items purchased (services, bills, etc) on the basis that we are 'part' VAT liable. There's a complex VAT arrangement based upon a deMinimis calculation whereby we claim some VAT, don't charge the memebrs any, but this is based upon the member receiving services amounting to much of the membership fee. Magazines are VAT exempt (or is that zero rated?) therefore, since the 'price' of the magazine is some £43.20, it covers the major part of your membership fee. Hence no VAT. Still with me?
BTW. The HMRC have charged the VAT element on the Rally discount (was that £5) for every member for the last couple of years! We've just claimed that back, but it's a classic example of unintended consequences when a simple discount to members is proposed as a'good thing' for the Rally.
Pete
Ooh - I feel a £14,000 windfall coming on...BTW. The HMRC have charged the VAT element on the Rally discount (was that £5) for every member for the last couple of years! We've just claimed that back,
Was that really levied on all members, or just the typical attendance numbers? No need for an answer - we can guess they would levy it at the highest possible amount.
032505
Mike ,as I understood it the mag sub at £35 DOES include the right to vote.The idea being that the recipient then "feels part of the association",whereas an " associate" has no such right.So basically people who have no interest in joining the LAA (but just want a good aviation mag) become members by default and eventually become aware of what the LAA has to offer and then spread the gospel.
John Cook
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