Do you fly a permit vintage factory built to the continent?

Mike Potts · Post by **Mike Potts** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:28 am

At the N/C meeting yesterday it has just came to light that following an incident/accident of a Dutch or Belgium aircraft in the other country that the directive / letter of understanding does not cover factory built aircraft, examples; cub, luscombe, jodel. So please be aware that if something happens to you in France, you maybe on your own.
The LAA are currently working on this to get it sorted out and the meeting was told that the LAA website will be updated on this issue as soon as practical.

Mike

Mike Potts · Post by **Mike Potts** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:17 pm

FLYING LAA FACTORY TYPES TO FRANCE – UPDATE

Following a meeting with the DGAC, CAA and LAA on Wednesday 30th June 2010, the DGAC have kindly offered to expedite a temporary exemption allowing factory-built LAA permit aircraft to fly into France without further permissions. The exemption is until the full legal status can be enshrined within French Ministerial Decree. Until the temporary exemption is in place, pilots are reminded that individual permission to fly in France in factory Permit aircraft is required.

The LAA is actively working on a process with DGAC and pilots wishing to fly their LAA Permit factory-built aircraft to France should refer to www.laa.uk.com for the latest information. In the meantime pilots are welcome to send LAA copies of their details (aircraft docs including registration, Permit, CofV, insurance, radio, licence, medical, intended departure and return dates not to exceed 28 days etc…) attention of Penny Sharpe or Peter Harvey with FRANCE in the subject line: [email protected] or fax 01280 846 780. If/when the temporary process is established, LAA will assist with processing your paperwork.

G.Dawes · Post by **G.Dawes** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:00 am

I am a bit confused about this as we always used to have a blanket permission to fly in France. Was it removed by them for any reason recently or was it because the CAA did it first to them, as I seem to remember a few years back for microlights. What about NON factory planes?
Graham

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:53 am

Graham, There's no change for homebuilt (i.e. non factory) permit a/c. This was an admin cock-up by the French in giving factory built homebuilts blanket exemption years ago when it wasn't formally written into their regulations. DGAC and LAA are pulling out the stops to redress this in the hope it can be sorted before next week's RSA rally. The TL 2.08 that covers this has been updated - See LAA homepage link for more info.

Mike Cross · Post by **Mike Cross** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:36 am

factory built homebuilts

That sounds an interesting concept Mike!

macconnacher · Post by **macconnacher** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:46 am

Mike I think the wording is incorrect but with my pedant hat on I will alter Mike Mould's statement to what he meant.

"Factory built aircraft that are certified to the UK's Homebuilt certification rules i.e LAA Permit"

We are one of the few countries in the world that allow this concession for factory built orphans. Thus it is understandable that the DGAC when giving their concession all those years ago covered homebuilts when we in the UK assumed homebuilts and permit factory builts.

Perhaps John Dean can explain how the RSA letter helps the situation - are Factory built Homebuilts "Avions de Collection"?

G.Dawes · Post by **G.Dawes** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:34 pm

I remember a long long time ago that Doug Biachi had problems getting a tiger moth out because it was MUNITIONS OF WAR and it needed a licence until the French customs officer saw it an fell over laughing. The various bureaucracies in various countries all have their own THING over something or other I bet that LAA plane's are flying over my house now to France and won't have any trouble as they haven't heard about this matter and neither will anyone they come across over there.

ChampChump · Post by **ChampChump** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:46 pm

Now I'm home I've told the aeroplane we were flying illegally and if I could find it, I'd fall on my sword.

Quite how the LAA/DGAC would have expected those already in the gallic bundu to comply with this retrospective bit of blunderaucracy that they knew nothing about is something I'm still pondering.

And, moreover, when a factory-built orphan is rebuilt completely, does it not then become a home-built?

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:19 am

ChampChump wrote:Now I'm home I've told the aeroplane we were flying illegally and if I could find it, I'd fall on my sword.

Quite how the LAA/DGAC would have expected those already in the gallic bundu to comply with this retrospective bit of blunderaucracy that they knew nothing about is something I'm still pondering.

And, moreover, when a factory-built orphan is rebuilt completely, does it not then become a home-built?

Let's not forget this is a tidying up of French paperwork so that it actually says what the French intent has always been (to allow). So there has never been any hassle from the French authorities about flying there. However a loss adjuster might take an interest which is why Roger Hopkinson has been working with DGAC to tidy up their words.

Re factory/home built my guess would be that if the constructors name on your permit changed to the ?amateur? that rebuilt it then it's homebuilt.

Steve

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Ok, but you know what I meant!

Mike Cross · Post by **Mike Cross** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:08 pm

Yep!

Do you think they'll try to extradite me?

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:52 am

Does anyone have the latest on the blanket exemption from DGAC?

iancallier · Post by **iancallier** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:38 pm

A significant thing here is that there many 'factory' built Piper J3 and jodels etc etc operating on CNRA=PermtoFly.
Quite wisely some of those are moving on to the microlight register!!

pillpoppinpilot · Post by **pillpoppinpilot** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:39 pm

The latest from the LAA website is not very encouraging, especially as the Jodel fly out/in to St Omer is coming up. According to the web site it's going to take 3 months to sort out ....or you can pay 50 euros to get permission!
I think the 50 euros might put a lot of people off, I won't be paying it. The majority of aircraft at St Omer were G reg last year so I feel for the organisers.
Fortunately for me I have a mate with a CofA Arrow so I'll be going in that.

Tony Smith

Alan Kilbride · Post by **Alan Kilbride** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:22 pm

I was going to St Omer, but now I won't be. Too much hassle to complete paperwork and now the publicity has stopped me thinking of sneaking in under the radar as usually happens.