LAPL Privilages

[Stephen Vestuti]

Hi ,

I've tralled the CAA & LAA websites including this forum on what exactly are the
pivilges of the LAPL Licence - all I can find is information on the medical & the fact
that you can fly in Europe.
What is it ? is it the same as a PPL A but with a lower medical requirment ?
Can someone please point me to a document where I can read up on it ,

Thanks,

Steve.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Steve, assuming we are talking Single Engine Piston, in very simple terms it is an NPPL equivalent licence that allows you to fly in the EU. It is limited to aircraft up to 2000kg and four seats, and there is no provision for IMC or Night Ratings so it is purely a day VFR licence. The weight limits are irrelevant for most of us as 2000kg covers pretty much what most PPLs fly.
The Medical is based on, but not exactly the same as, the NPPL Declaration but is a medical rather than a sign off. In theory you GP can carry out the medical but it is considerably more involved for them to do so than is the NPPL Declaration and it is generally considered probable that many GPs will decide not to get involved, initially at least. You can also get the LAPL medical carried out by an AME.
Why would you get a LAPL? Firstly if you currently have an NPPL SSEA then you can only fly in the UK, the Channel Isles and Eire so a LAPL, the medical for which most NPPL holders should be able to pass, will enable you access to the EU. Second, if you are over 50, the LAPL medical lasts two years and the PPL Class 2 medical only lasts a year. Third it allows you to fly EASA aircraft, which after April 2015 you will not be able to do on an NPPL or UK PPL.
Are there any drawbacks? If you want to fly IMC or Night then a LAPL is no good to you. And, at the moment, due to a ba**s up that was not foreseen when the regulations were drawn up, it is necessary for each EU state to change its Air Navigation Order to allow Annex 2 aircraft to be operated in their airspace by a LAPL holder, though if they are flying an EASA aircraft they are already OK to fly throughout the EU. No doubt this rather ridiculous situation will be resolved in due course.
The direct replacement for your UK PPL or JAR PPL is the EASA PPL (the JAR PPL automatically became an EASA PPL in September 2012). Unlike the JAR PPL the EASA PPL is a for life licence and when your current JAR (now considered to be an EASA) licence expires (it has a five year life), the EASA licence you replace it with will be a for life issue. If you have the older UK PPL, then it remains a UK PPL and if you want an EASA PPL then you will have to apply for one. There is no rush though as your UK PPL (and NPPL SSEA) allow you to fly Annex 2 and EASA aircraft up till April 2015 but if you wish to fly EASA aircraft after that date you will have to have either an EASA PPL or an EASA LAPL. The UK PPL and the NPPL will only allow you to fly Annex 2 aircraft from April 2015 onwards.
There are a number of CAA documents that have been published to explain EASA licensing. Google EASA Flight Crew Licencing, pour yourself a stiff drink and take your pick.

[mikeblyth]

Thanks for explaining Brian, seems pretty clear especially the bit about a stiff drink, that I do understand. I don’t think my GP would want to go down the LAPL reg etc. Do we no the cost of LAPL. My GP charged me £25 for self declaration although he gave me a basic medical i.e. blood pressure eye test etc

[Brian Hope]

I think most AMEs will charge the same for a LAPL medical as they do for a Class 2.
Having checked you actually start saving from 50 years of age because that is when the Class 2 goes annual (5 years up to 40, 2 years 40 - 50, and one year from then on) whereas the LAPL goes to two years at 40 and stays at that duration from then onwards.
NPPL is OK up to 65 and then goes annual but is generally a very low cost option anyway so the shorter periods after 65 than a LAPL aren't going to make for a cost disadvantage. Let's face it though, as you get older having to have more regular medicals may well make more sense, and may well be a 'good thing' to do for peace of mind regarding your general health as men in particular are not usually very good at visiting the doctor until they are really suffering. But that doesn't mean we like to do it - white coat stress and all that - so some may prefer the extended period between medicals for other than cost reasons.
How much your GP would charge for a LAPL medical, provided they were prepared to do it, is anybody's guess. Maybe if you found out what he/she charges for an HGV medical it would give you some idea.

[mikeblyth]

Thanks Brian
Starting to get cold so came in and went on the computer waiting for the wine, and something to soak it up “Dinner”. Did a Google on HGV medicals around £50 will bring this up next medical time. Flying a Taylor Monoplane has been an inspiration to keep fit i.e. light and flexible, could the same be said for other types.

[Stephen Vestuti]

Thanks Brian for explaining that,
I read through some of the EASA FCL document but still could'nt find some of the points you
wrote that I was looking for,

Thanks,

Steve.

[Donald Walker]

... a LAPL, the medical for which most NPPL holders should be able to pass, will enable you access to the EU.

Not in a permit aircraft though: http://services.lightaircraftassociatio ... f=5&t=3669

[Brian Hope]

Yes that's correct Donald, as I pointed out in my initial explanation. It's an 'unexpected consequence' rather than a deliberate exclusion and will eventually get resolved. The CAA has already made the necessary change to the UK ANO I believe.

[tomkinnaird]

Hi,
Have there been any indications on likely timings for approvals for flight in Europe with an LAPL and an Annex 2 aircraft ? "In due course ...." sounds a bit vague. Is this really going to have to be done on a country by country basis. and where would this information be published when approved ?

Thanks, Tom

[Brian Hope]

Hi Tom, now therein lies the problem. I would hope that EASA somehow greases the wheels so that this gets sorted fairly easily but how/if or when is anybody's guess.
The UK CAA has been quick to engage with the EASA licensing changeover - thay had until April 2015 but chose to get on with it early whereas some other National Airworthiness Authorities are likely to introduce it somewhat later. It is partly because CAA were quick off the mark that this anomoly came to light I think, so at least it is now out there and other NAAs should be aware.
All we can do at the moment is see how things develop. Hopefully there will be a way we can find out which NAAs have amended their ANOs as required without having to trawl through them all page by page but as of this moment I know not how. As soon as I or any of our movers and shakers hear of any developments our members will be made aware.

[nodrog]

I have an NPPL SSEA (Land) Licence.
I would like to convert this to a LAPL in order to fly in other EU countries.
I have an NPPL Medical declaration. Also a Medical Certificate JAA Class 2 valid till 20/6/13.(obtained in order to allow me to fly in France)
I also have certificate of ICAO compliance language proficiency level 6.

Has anyone done this conversion and could advise in VERY simple terms:-
1. Which form is "THE" form to be used?
2. Do I need to have a LAPL medical BEFORE application or will the licence be able to be issued if I enclose my JAA Class 2?
3. How much is the conversion fee?

I have looked at the internet and have seen much complicated and confusing advice, including of charges at £153! etc etc.

[Alan Kilbride]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1104FFenabled.pdf

A Class 2 Medical or A LAPL medical

£41 + £6 courier

[Brian Hope]

Hi Alan, there does seem to be some confusion but I agree with your form and fee. Have you, or for that matter has anybody reading this, actually sent this form and fee and got a LAPL back? I intend applying but have been hanging back for the early rush for EASA licences to die down, I have heard unofficially that the CAA is rushed off its feet trying to clear a backlog.

[Donald Walker]

Yes, I sent in the form and the fee and got the licence two months later, on my second visit to Gatwick.

On my first visit, six weeks after posting the application, they told me it was being processed and would be ready next week. When it didn't turn up, I went back to their offices and sat there while they scrambled around looking for it. They finally admitted my application was lost, so I promptly pulled out and presented them with a duplicate. The licence was ready for me to pick up that same afternoon.

If you seek an LAPL on the basis of your NPPL (SSEA), your application goes into the 'non-urgent' basket, because you can continue to fly on your NPPL. :>)

[Brian Hope]

Thanks Donald, at least we know that this form and fee is correct. Maybe I'll send my application now and just wait, my Class 2 still has quite while to run yet.