LAPL Privilages

[Donald Walker]

I wrote to the DGAC to ask if I was authorised to fly in France on my LAPL in a homebuilt aircraft and received replies from the licensing and airworthines departments within a few hours.

The licensing people quoted Article 11, item 1, of EU regulation 216/2008 which reads:

Recognition of certificates
1. Member States shall, without further technical requirements or
evaluation, recognise certificates issued in accordance with this
Regulation. When the original recognition is for a particular purpose
or purposes, any subsequent recognition shall cover only the same
purpose or purposes.

So the licence was valid. The second question was referred to the airwothiness department, and their response, predictably, quoted http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... ieLien=cid

So that's me sorted, as far as France is concerned. It seems to me the French will not be inclined to change their ANO in a hurry, because they don't see any incompatibility between a foreign issued LAPL and Annex II aircraft.

[John Dean]

I always think it's dangerous to rely on one paragraph of a complex piece of legislation. If you take that paragraph on its own then you could say that an NPPL(SSEA) with a medical certificate should be acceptable.

However, if you have it in writing from the DGAC a French policeman is hardly likely to query it.

[Donald Walker]

I agree it is dangerous to rely on one paragraph John, but that regulation is all about EASA, so refers only EASA licences. Of course, someone could take the view that it only applies to EASA aircraft.
The emails are already in my flight bag and they are in French, so the policeman can read them.

[Alan Kilbride]

Success.
I received my new LAPL today. The form was correct as was the cost £41 + £6 courier. I however decided to retain my NPPL also and my total cost came to £82.
I retained my NPPL as the medical is for 5 years and a little easier and cheaper to pass if anything should go wrong. As they are both valid for life, a 2 yearly check will suffice for both licenses.
For the extra £36 I thought "What the hell"
Application sent 28/11/2012.

Coincidentally I E Mailed the CAA yesterday evening to vent my spleen over the delay.

[Donald Walker]

That is strange Alan. I filled in the form as below and didn't pay anything to retain my NPPL.

On the basis of my National licence OR JAR-FCL licence issued by the United Kingdom
Examiner Certification held Please include details in Section 5
I wish to retain or be issued with a UK National Pilot's Licence to hold a type rating for Annex II aircraft.
(Please note that only aircraft listed in Annex II can be endorsed on to a national pilot's licence and there will be a separate fee for the issue of a UK Pilots Licence.)[/quote]
The separate fee is for the issue of a licence, not to retain one you already have.

[Alan Kilbride]

Hi Donald,
I just did a quick check and this is from the CAA scheme of charges.
I did tick the box to say I wish to retain my NPPL rating and it does say to retain

Do you think I have been robbed?

3.3
National UK Pilot’s Licence – issue to retain National UK ratings
Upon making a conversion / replacement application specified in Tables 1 or 2, where,
in addition to the issue of an EASA Pilot Licence, it is required also to issue a National
UK Pilot’s Licence in order to retain National UK ratings, the applicant shall pay to the
CAA a supplementary charge of £35.

£41 + £6 + £35 = £82

[Alan Kilbride]

Dammit,
It looks as though I've been conned. As I ticked the box for retention of UK pilot license the geezer at CAA should not have charged me because I think it means UK PPL and not NPPL.
Can some one confirm?

[Donald Walker]

I can confirm that I retained my NPPL free of charge. I am sure they will reimburse you Alan, if you give them a ring.

[Alan Kilbride]

Thanks Donald,
I'll get in touch with them. They did however issue a new NPPL with the LAPL, but as it's their mistake I am sure it will get my £35 back.

[Brian Hope]

Irv Lee has been in touch suggesting that when applying for a LAPL you should apply for any Ratings that you are entitled to.
Irv comments: I can see no reason why a LAPL holder can't ask for a night rating and fly VFR at night on a LAPL now, if they already hold a night qualification at the moment on a PPL. I think it's allowed. On the same topic, I've been encouraging people to ask for ANYTHING - not just the night, but if they have had aerobatic experience, especially with plenty of log book evidence, they should be asking for that rating too, same with tug-pilot, same with any mountain flying. It's quite possible the CAA have not yet started issuing the tug rating, but if you don't ask, you don't get, and it's best done on conversion, not later.
Thanks for the tip Irv.

[tomkinnaird]

Hi, I've just done the NPPL to LAPL conversion. I sent the forms to the CAA by post and got the LAPL back within three weeks.

[Ian Law]

Brian,

I have an NPPL (SSEA) and a "DVLC" Group 1 medical declaration.

My understanding was that I could not fly EASA aircraft ( e.g. the C152s I would occasionally use at Bodmin when the Aeronca was U/S.) after December 2012, but perhaps this isn't the case? You mentioned:

"There is no rush though as your UK PPL (and NPPL SSEA) allow you to fly Annex 2 and EASA aircraft up till April 2015 but if you wish to fly EASA aircraft after that date you will have to have either an EASA PPL or an EASA LAPL. The UK PPL and the NPPL will only allow you to fly Annex 2 aircraft from April 2015 onwards."

I queried this with an instructor at Bodmin on Friday and he thought my C152 days were over, following the EASA changes. Very brief conversation with him and he didn't have time to check.

Are you able to clarify this easily? It would be handy to resort to the 152 if the "permitted" Aeronca is unavailable for any reason.

Ian

[John Dean]

I'm sure Brian is right and this page may persuade your flying instructor.

No doubt the same information is available on the CAA web site if only I could find it!

[Ian Law]

Many thanks John.

Looks as though I may have misunderstood the rules again & I'll have another word when I next visit the airfield. My biennial check is due soon and it could be useful to have an alternative aeroplane available for this ( the weight of the instructor could be an issue with the Aeronca & full fuel. ).

Ian

[Brian Hope]

Yes Ian, your instructor needs to brush up on the transition period from UK licences to EASA licences. With the NPPL SSEA you are OK to fly EASA aeroplanes (C152, PA28 etc) till April 2015, provided of course you have a valid Medical Declaration.