CAA announce 8.33 Hand Held Radios are Legal

[mikehallam]

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?c ... l&nid=2316

All praise to the 'NEW LOOK' CAA and the folk in charge nowadays.

mike hallam.,

[Alan Kilbride]

BRILLIANT

I would like thank all those involved for bringing this about. Whoever they are.
Anything that doesn't compromise safety, yet keeps costs down must be applauded.
Now Pilots with proper little Aircraft can legally fit them.

[Donald Walker]

I guess manufacturers will be rushing to confirm their handhelds meet the requirements,in time for Christmas.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/220/20131126L ... ficate.pdf

[mikehallam]

I gather from the BMAA forum that Icom are already offering compliant radios.
Even that at the Flying Show at Birmingham today/tomorrow they may be on sale.

mike hallam.

[Donald Walker]

When 8.33 spacing becomes mandatory, my aircraft might have 2 radios, the perfectly good 25mHz Funkwerk and an 8.33 ICOM handheld. The Funkwerk will be there for decoration only, of course.

[watchboss1]

I may ask Father Christmas for an Icom A6E, to replace my very trusty A3E. My A3E has been to the menders just once in about 14 years ! Always operates faultlessly.
I think Icom equipment is excellent.

[Nigel Hitchman]

Im not sure that I completely understand this. It would seem that all they have said is that Radios already approved by CAA and EASA for ground use are now approved for airborn use.
Are there many handheld radios already approved for ground us that aren't approved for use in the air?
Every little helps, but I would have thought what would be better would be to say that all Handheld radios with a US approval are automatically approved, given that most radios are I guess made for the US market, although they don't need 8.33 over there due to better radio frequency management.

It would also have been great if they also said that the pointless radio licence tax was also abolished! I know it was reduced already, but surely costs as much to administer as it brings in in revenue.

[Ian Melville]

It's going to be very confusing with the A6 and A24 ICOM coming in 25khz and 8.33Khz versions. The is no visible difference until you try and put in a 8.33 channel.

Watch out if you are buying 2nd hand, as they cannot be upgraded.

[Chris Martyr]

Fantastic.

Do you reckon that it was the pressure to bear , brought about by this forum that forced the issue.

[Brian Hope]

Sam Taylor-Nobbs of Icom UK has been in discussion with the CAA about this for the past 14 months and the breakthrough came when CAA took a more realistic approach to the Approval process. Icom had already seen the requirement for an approved 8.33 kHtz handheld before I spoke with them when it was last debated on this forum; they were already in discussion with EASA and CAA but it wasn't looking very hopeful as the existing Approval process was way too complex for a handheld radio to comply with. This is the first of hopefully many more realistic approaches by the CAA that will make the lives of those of us in GA easier. At the NEC on Saturday the CAA’s Mike Barnard explained that the small risk of a 'lesser' approved handheld interfering with other radio transmissions was far outweighed by the greater risk of many pilots flying around non-radio after 2017. Common-sense has prevailed. It would be nice if EASA followed suit and these radios could be legally used across Europe. We can but hope.

[Donald Walker]

It would be nice if EASA followed suit and these radios could be legally used across Europe. We can but hope.

For many years pilots have been flying homebuilts and microlights all over Europe with ICOM handhelds that were only approved for use in UK airspace. Why would that not be the case in future with these new handhelds?

http://www.icomuk.co.uk/News_Article/3508/18068/

[Brian Hope]

For many years pilots have been flying homebuilts and microlights all over Europe with ICOM handhelds that were only approved for use in UK airspace. Why would that not be the case in future with these new handhelds?

As far as I am aware the CAA approved those earlier radios to an ICAO accepted aircraft use standard, which meant they could be used outside of UK airspace. EASA now deals with the approvals and there is no category in the process for handhelds, they have to go through the same process as what are higher spec panel mount units. What CAA has done is decide to accept a ground use approval, so they know that the radios have at least met a reasonable standard, and are prepared to allow their use in the air. As this is a not an EASA or ICAO accepted air use approval, use is restricted to UK only and not in A,B or C airspace. Therefore they cannot legally be used abroad.

[Donald Walker]

Brian,
My Permit to Fly states "... hereby permits this aircraft to fly within UK United Kingdom airspace only ...". I think this puts the argument about the 8.33 kHz handheld radio being approved for UK airspace only into context.

[Steve Brown]

Yes Donald but..............
most EU States allow UK PtF a/c to fly in their airspace without further approval because most reciprocate blanket approval and allow free movement of PtF types .......with one bizarre exception of Belgium, who want specific one off by a/c authorisation---and a fee .......quite why, well......who knows?!

Many thus travel abroad quite legally at the moment - will not be the case in 2017 if only equipped with HH 8.33 radios (unless you are Non Radio - not particularly wise!

Reagrds
Steve

[Donald Walker]

Hi Steve,
Belgium is not the only country that requires an authorisation for foreign ptf aircraft, and it is not the only country that charges for it either. With some exceptions, our own CAA charges £64 for a permit with a validity of 28 days in any 12 month period, compared to the Belgium's 94 euros for 30 days p.a. http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?c ... appproc=27.

LAA types normally fly in Europe under cover of the ECAC Recommendation INT.S/11-1 dated June 1980, which states that "Member States accept home-built aircraft with a certificate of airworthiness or a permit to fly issued by another Member State, to fly in their country without any restrictions other than
those stated in the certificate of airworthiness or permit to fly." There is not even a mention, let alone a restriction, on radios in a PtF or the Operating Limitations. So, as long as you have a valid radio licence, IMHO, you are legal to fly in ECAC Member States.

AFAIK, Belgium, Greece, Portugal and Spain, among others, are not signatories to the agreement, which is why we have to apply for permission. The list of documents required is usually as shown here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4_909.pdf. A valid radio licence should not be confused with a licence for a valid radio.

I realise my view on this matter may appear unusual, but I put it down half a lifetime in South America, where the creative interpretation of regulations is rather more developed than it is here.

Best regards
Donald