The CAA will launch a new category for Experimental aircraft on 16 November. 'E' Conditions, as the new category is known, has been developed with the Royal Aeronautical Society and will be announced at a Light Aircraft Design conference being staged by the RAeS at its London HQ.
'E' Conditions has been under consultation all this year. The plan is to provide a framework to encourage light aircraft to be developed in the UK. It will enable the flight testing of a UK Registered Experimental Aircraft, up to a Maximum Takeoff Mass (MTOM) of 2000kg, when overseen by a person considered as competent for the task.
The requirement for experimental testing may be because the aircraft, engines, propellers/rotors, etc, are of new design, or because they have been modified. In addition, 'E' Conditions can be used if the aircraft is being operated in a manner or role that is previously unproven, said the CAA.
Both commercially built and amateur built non EASA Aircraft are eligible for 'E' Conditions operation. CAP1220 is the document which fully details 'E' Conditions available for download from the CAA website (link below).
The RAeS has launched an annual competition to design an aircraft, operational scenario or bolt-on system that could be tested using 'E' Conditions.
"You are the Chief Engineer of an aerospace company and you have an idea for a new and innovative fixed-wing general aviation aircraft design," says the RAeS in the competition introduction.
"Your company does not have the resources to take the idea all of the way to Type Certification to obtain a Certificate of Airworthiness but does have the resources for a prototype to be flown under ‘E’ conditions. You have therefore brought together your team to undertake the design of the aircraft idea and to create the design dossier required."
Full details of the competition are on the RAeS website (link below).
Experimental in the UK
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
-
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:22 am
- Location: NW UK
Experimental in the UK
Just seen this on the Flyer website, surprised that the CAA /RAeS did not involve the LAA?
037315
-
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:21 pm
Re: Experimental in the UK
I have not had time to fully digest the documents yet, but I have a few questions regarding the LAA and 'E' conditions. I hope that 'E' Conditions as it is, does not make getting a new design through the LAA much harder than it is now?
As far as I can see, only SSDR is exempt.
Then there is the following...
The RAeE has driven this through with their members in mind (Chartered Engineers), with the aim of getting UK designs to manufacturing rather than drifting off to different countries which what happens now. I would be surprised if they had not discussed it with the LAA, BMAA etc. even if they were not partners. There is a glimmer of hope in this comment...
I will be going on the 16th to see what is said in support of the 'E' Conditions.
As far as I can see, only SSDR is exempt.
Then there is the following...
So if the LAA provides the 'Competent Person', and they submit to the CAA on our behalf. How much addition paper work is that going to generate, and what is it going to cost me? It would be wrong to expect the LAA or BMAA to bear the cost of this 'Chartered Engineer'. That engineer is going to want a lot of supporting work to be done by the builder/designer before they put their name to the submission. That could mean an end to getting a foreign design through on the 2500hr rules.Method 2 - Approval of an Organisation to Authorise Competent Persons
It is expected that several of the sporting organisations, such as the LAA and BMAA, will provide a route to authorise Competent Persons for aircraft projects that fall within their scope. This will enable consideration of those people that are not registered as a Chartered Engineer.
The RAeE has driven this through with their members in mind (Chartered Engineers), with the aim of getting UK designs to manufacturing rather than drifting off to different countries which what happens now. I would be surprised if they had not discussed it with the LAA, BMAA etc. even if they were not partners. There is a glimmer of hope in this comment...
By Eligible I take that there are options available.Both commercially-built and amateur-built non-EASA Aircraft are eligible for ‘E’ Conditions operation
I will be going on the 16th to see what is said in support of the 'E' Conditions.
Ian Melville
032644
032644
Re: Experimental in the UK
I have a couple of observations and an aside to this.
I can't see anything in the above quotes that means the LAA would be obliged to change how they currently oversee the design and testing of LAA types. But I'll caveat that with 'fessing up that I haven't read the documents thoroughly yet.
Secondly, E-conditions only permit the testing of an aircraft for two years at most - the first year is granted on the back of a RAeS registered CEng permitting flight (according to some guidelines, I presume) and the second year may be regarded as an extension to the first, although I don't know if the years have to run contiguously. This isn't introducing a new category of permit or airworthiness - it's a permission to perform flight testing as a precursor to some form of certification of the whole or part of an aircraft.
As an aside, I meet regularly with a group of interested people and last week I met with a couple of lecturers at UWE who are planning to flight test an aircraft under E-conditions. One of whom will be coming on the 16th. I'll arrange an introduction, Ian.
I can't see anything in the above quotes that means the LAA would be obliged to change how they currently oversee the design and testing of LAA types. But I'll caveat that with 'fessing up that I haven't read the documents thoroughly yet.
Secondly, E-conditions only permit the testing of an aircraft for two years at most - the first year is granted on the back of a RAeS registered CEng permitting flight (according to some guidelines, I presume) and the second year may be regarded as an extension to the first, although I don't know if the years have to run contiguously. This isn't introducing a new category of permit or airworthiness - it's a permission to perform flight testing as a precursor to some form of certification of the whole or part of an aircraft.
As an aside, I meet regularly with a group of interested people and last week I met with a couple of lecturers at UWE who are planning to flight test an aircraft under E-conditions. One of whom will be coming on the 16th. I'll arrange an introduction, Ian.
Jonathan Mercer
032113
032113
-
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:21 pm
Re: Experimental in the UK
Thanks Jon,
Actually I approx. equate it to the LAA permit to test fly, which is granted for only one month, and extendable month by month. I would assume that after two years the project is either going nowhere, or has had so many changes that a new dossier would not be un reasonable
Cheers
Ian
Actually I approx. equate it to the LAA permit to test fly, which is granted for only one month, and extendable month by month. I would assume that after two years the project is either going nowhere, or has had so many changes that a new dossier would not be un reasonable
Cheers
Ian
Ian Melville
032644
032644
-
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:01 pm
- Location: Bucks
Re: Experimental in the UK
If I could correct a misunderstanding - whilst I'm no longer on that committee, the RAeS General Aviation Group which spearheaded this contains Francis Donaldson and Ben Syson. So, both LAA and BMAA were entirely onside.
Right now, the only route to gain a CPRN (Competent Person Registration Number) is through the RAeS - yes to be a CEng and a Member or Fellow.
LAA and BMAA are working together, both Chief Engineers told me recently, to create their own CRPN allocation system. Neither seemed very clear on the specific route, but "eventually" is at least an honest assessment.
Right now, any CEng MRAeS can apply for a CPRN, it's non-expiring and can subsequently be used for any project, so long as the CEng and RAeS membership remain current. This can then be used to do testing so that reports can then be issued to either association as part of an approval package. With a good Engineer, this should be rather more streamlined than what's gone before.
(Yes I have a CPRN - I'm not specifically looking for projects at the moment, but happy to talk about possibilities nonetheless. I do have one LAA project lined up that I probably will be doing, just not so sure of timescale.)
Guy.G
(ex BMAA Chief Technical Officer, now working in airborne research, mostly at Cranfield)
GuyG (at) aircraftmail (dot) com.
Right now, the only route to gain a CPRN (Competent Person Registration Number) is through the RAeS - yes to be a CEng and a Member or Fellow.
LAA and BMAA are working together, both Chief Engineers told me recently, to create their own CRPN allocation system. Neither seemed very clear on the specific route, but "eventually" is at least an honest assessment.
Right now, any CEng MRAeS can apply for a CPRN, it's non-expiring and can subsequently be used for any project, so long as the CEng and RAeS membership remain current. This can then be used to do testing so that reports can then be issued to either association as part of an approval package. With a good Engineer, this should be rather more streamlined than what's gone before.
(Yes I have a CPRN - I'm not specifically looking for projects at the moment, but happy to talk about possibilities nonetheless. I do have one LAA project lined up that I probably will be doing, just not so sure of timescale.)
Guy.G
(ex BMAA Chief Technical Officer, now working in airborne research, mostly at Cranfield)
GuyG (at) aircraftmail (dot) com.
030651
-
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
Re: Experimental in the UK
Francis is writing an article about how E conditions will work, and LAA's role, in the January issue.
Mark Shortman gave a very good presentation at Flyer Live and new designs and modification of existing aircraft - Ptf and EASA - can be considered.There will be conditions of course, the mitigation of risk to third parties probably being the major issue. You should not consider operation in E conditions as being remotely comparable as operating a US Experimental, it much more a dedicated research and development temporary and controlled flight approval system and once a designer is satisfied that his aircraft is 'sorted' then approval through the normal channels must be gone through if it is to continue to fly in the UK.
It is a much needed opportunity to more easily develop new designs or major modifications so hopefully it will generate some new British aircraft and experimentation.
Mark Shortman gave a very good presentation at Flyer Live and new designs and modification of existing aircraft - Ptf and EASA - can be considered.There will be conditions of course, the mitigation of risk to third parties probably being the major issue. You should not consider operation in E conditions as being remotely comparable as operating a US Experimental, it much more a dedicated research and development temporary and controlled flight approval system and once a designer is satisfied that his aircraft is 'sorted' then approval through the normal channels must be gone through if it is to continue to fly in the UK.
It is a much needed opportunity to more easily develop new designs or major modifications so hopefully it will generate some new British aircraft and experimentation.
014011
-
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:01 pm
- Location: Bucks
Re: Experimental in the UK
I'd just like to endorse what Brian said there - I very much agree with this statement.You should not consider operation in E conditions as being remotely comparable as operating a US Experimental, it much more a dedicated research and development temporary and controlled flight approval system and once a designer is satisfied that his aircraft is 'sorted' then approval through the normal channels must be gone through if it is to continue to fly in the UK.
G
030651