Tracey Curtis-Taylor

[gasax]

Just to clarify my earlier comments

Steven's comments that the award was made in 'good faith' look pretty hollow in the light of the facts which have emerged

. In no way do I mean that the award was given incorrectly on the information presented. Whether it was truly worth the award I do not know. But the committee did and that is fine, that is their role and they have the authority from our association to do that.

The problem comes when the truth comes out and then the award still stands, rewarding deceit - that is the issue.

If the state can withdraw knighthoods and the like, then the LAA must withdraw the TCT award.

[Chris Martyr]

Pete . I cannot dispute anything you say and we are all pretty much in agreement here.
But I feel that I should just clarify one point :

I have a feeling that there may be quite a few people who may be under the misapprehension that if enough people voice their disapproval , then the Board will have to reconsider if the Bill Woodhams Award WAS in the hands of a suitable custodian. I was under a similar misapprehension myself , but a certain kind gentleman with a little more experience than I in these matters has recently put me right.

It is NOT in the hands of the Board ! Once Barry Tempest has put the Motion forward and it has been seconded , then it is up to the votes of the membership, both those present at the AGM , and those who have voted by proxy . Once that has taken place then the Board will have to carry that Motion . Whichever way the membership has voted !
That is why it is very important for any member who has an opinion on this [and I'm sure many have] to vote at this AGM. [ or by the proxy form which will appear soon]
I know that there has been a massive amount of contributions on this topic in various parts of the aviation press/media. Some very well presented and others slightly less so. But all that is now over as far as I am concerned and only one thing now counts as far as the LAA are concerned and that is that the democratic process is seen through.
I feel that it's a little unnecessary now to see photos of a certain green aircraft and who did what , where , when and why , we are past all that. In my opinion , a small amount of people have done a superb job in bringing this all to light and I think that as far as the LAA are concerned , they can consider a good job done [bar the voting].

After the AGM, I think a precedent will have been set and it is highly likely that , due to certain forums having a worldwide following , many will be watching this very closely indeed .

I should reiterate : This is not some rabble-rousing call to arms and there may indeed be members with differing views on this and whichever way the vote goes , I for one will accept it with grace and dignity, afterwhich I intend to revert back to more wholesome activities like flying a traditional little VW powered tailwheeler out of a little grass airstrip in rural Sussex.

But remember. The outcome is totally dependent , not on the Board , but us voting !

Edited by Chris M and many thanks to Mr Moderator, John Dean for pointing this out.

[John Dean]

then the Board will have to reconsider if the Bill Woodhams Award is currently in the hands of a suitable custodian.

I believe you will find that the trophy is no longer in her possession. As is usual, she only held it for one year after being presented with it in 2014.

[Flying John]

I believe you will find that the trophy is no longer in her possession. As is usual, she only held it for one year after being presented with it in 2014.

Forgive my ignorance, but why is everyone so upset at her recent flight being "Non Solo" if this trophy was presented in 2014. I could understand peoples wrath if she was awarded a "Trophy for Solo flight" in 2016 for her recent trip, when she was accompanied, but she was not awarded it for the 2016 flight.

How can something she did ( or didn't) do in 2016 have any bearing on something she did in 2014 for which she was awarded this trophy. Again forgive my possible ignorance but isnt the Bill Woodhams trophy awarded for Navigation and not for flying somewhere solo or with someone else. Did Bill specify when his trophy was created that it should not be awarded to someone if they flew with a crew member, partner or fellow aviator.

[Alan Kilbride]

My question then is this....................... What extraordinary feat of navigation did she achieve?
Escort aircraft with a multi thousand hour CPL in the front doesn't in any way equate to an extraordinary feat of navigation. Camping under the stars in a 5 star hotel every night? Dinner every night with VIPs and dignitaries? Nah.........If it wasn't obvious I would say she had a lot of front.
I have no wish for a witch hunt of anybody, but a modicum of honesty would not have gone amiss.
I will be attending the AGM and was going without the furore created by TCT and her less than honest adventures, but will want to debate the award.
The integrity of the committee who awards the trophies on behalf of the LAA is not in question.

Alan

[Chris Martyr]

John.
We're a little bit past that stage of the debate mate !
If you believe that she merited that award , regardless of when it was given , and you wish to use your democratic right to say so , then vote accordingly.
If , by the same token , you think that the award should not be recognised , then you can register your feelings accordingly there as well.
It's very very well covered territory now. Do you wish to see the validity of the award acknowledged as an achievement . If you do , then we live in a democracy and nobody is going to oppose it.

But don't forget that Neville Chamberlain went to Munich in 1938 with "the best intentions", and how many people acknowledge that "achievement" as being worthy of remembering !

Either vote or don't vote. That's what it's about now !

[Flying John]

Sounds like overcomplication and someone with an axe to grind.

The flight to (was it Africa) was an adventurous and meritorias flight whatever mode of Nav was used. How many people do you know still navigating with a sextand, a stopwatch and a grease pen. I think the LAA has moved with the times and if she did stay in a nice hotel and had hangers on, VIPs or helpers - good luck to her. I must try and arrange to stay in the Westminster next time I go to Le Touquet and see if that raises any eyebrows. Why on earth are the facilities she enjoyed and the amount of money she has got anything to do with her flying

I for one would consider anything further than immediate Europe as a bit of an adventure.

I really dont get it. Sure - if she had got a prize, or some cash or whatever,claiming a Solo flight this year when she had a companion aboard, then whatever she got THIS YEAR should be rescinded, but 2014 - really ????

[samrutherford]

Hi John,

The Trophy was awarded for the Cape Town to Goodwood flight - it was also on this flight that she had Ewald in the front for all but four of the flights.

It is in the public domain that when it was decided to award the Trophy, the LAA believed it to have been a solo flight. Indeed, many people still believe it to have been done solo - and so a considerably greater achievement than the reality.

The question is: would the Trophy have been awarded if they knew then what is now known?

There are a large number of people who believe not (particularly given that the misinformation in was not accidental), and that it is worth doing something about it rather than sitting idly by.

At the same time, there are many who wonder what all the fuss is about! The AGM is a perfect opportunity to see exactly where people stand.

[Flying John]

But the trophy isnt awarded for "solo flight". Its for ( I think ) a meritorious or adventurous flight.

As far as I can see what she did on that trip - with or without assistance from co-pilots or fixers on the ground, she still flew it.

As I said if it had been awarded this year for a Solo flight - whe she clearly wasnt, then rescinding is the order of the day, but to go back 2 years and take something away because of something she has done recently seems to fly in the face of logic and a little churlish. Infact it looks like she doesnt have the trophy now anyway as its only held for a year.

So much ado about nothing. What you need really is to find another organisation that has given her something for the recent ""solo"" flight and explain to them it was not solo and ask them to take it back.

[Chris Martyr]

John, all your posts are doing is "hamster-wheeling". We are a little bit past the petty bickering stage, but should you wish to continue at this level , there are several other forums where it can be done.
All I will say to you is this :
The wonderful pastime that we are privileged to be part of is with us only for a short time . We are the temporary custodians of the aeroplanes that we build, we fly, we maintain and also of the organisations that we support in helping us to do this.
The good folk whose names are remembered in the various awards each year, are owed a duty of care by all of us, in that their good names and reputations are continued into the future in a way that respects and honours them , us and future recipients.
One day, none of us will be here and I am sure that we would want to leave a legacy that is respectable and unsullied when past Rolls of Honour are observed.
That is one of the reasons why Barry Tempest will be tabling a Motion at this next AGM . It is totally your prerogative to take part should you wish to.

I really dont get it.

:
Well, I hope you do now !
Oh, and I hope that fellow LAA'er and Rand KR2 builder/pilot Colin Hales doesn't ever get to read some other the other stuff you wrote John.

and if she did stay in a nice hotel and had hangers on, VIPs or helpers - good luck to her. Why on earth are the facilities she enjoyed and the amount of money she has got anything to do with her flying

Oh yes and hopefully LAA'er and London-Capetown-London record attempter Steve Noujaim is looking away from this frightful dross as well.
Credit where it's due John. Credit where it's due. But not when it's not.

[Flying John]

Crikey - you are bearing a heavy burden - all we want to do is fly and have fun.

I think the majority have better things to do than berate fellow pilots.

I hope you are able to get the support you deserve for your bandwagon - I doubt it somehow

Good Luck.

Nearly forgot:

Rand KR2 builder/pilot Colin Hales doesn't ever get to read some other the other stuff you wrote John.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean, some veiled threat perhaps, should i know a famous KR2 builder - or should i be making sure my doors are bolted at night. ????

[samrutherford]

Hi John,

Perhaps I can explain without the emotional bit!

The trophy was awarded because:

The world was told it was going to be done solo.
Once completed the world was encouraged to believe that it had been done solo.

Since the truth has come out (not solo and evidence of deliberate subterfuge) there has been a scurrying about trying rewrite this history 'we never said it would be solo'.

The LAA made the award on the basis of information that has turned out to be false. If they had known the real story back then, the Trophy would not have been given. The vote is ask if this error should be corrected (trophy retracted) or not.

There is a huge thread on Pprune about it (over 200,000 views).

[Chris Martyr]

Ian , I'm sure you're not far away .

Nip into the carzy would you mate and try to dig out the mag's that have the articles about that bloke who's off on a bit of a jolly at the moment. You know, it's the bloke in that wood/fabric, Jabiru engined thing .

Can't for the life of me think wot his bloody name is .

[Ian Melville]

was I on a listening squawk.

Not sure that dragging other log distance tourers into this discussion, contributes anything. Let's see what happens at the AGM.

[Chris Martyr]

You old nighthawk you. Can't you sleep

You're quite right. Colin Hales' achievements should definitely be left out of all this. There is absolutely no comparison in any way ever . And what a superb ambassador for the LAA !

Let's see what happens at the AGM.

And I totally agree with that !

Right,,,I'm off to Deanland.