Grey Aviation

[AWMN]

I find this thread both interesting and worrying.

I have 3 hobbies or interests. I have ridden Motorcycle Trials since the late 1970's and have been on the committee of my club for more years than I care to remember. I have a mid 30's vintage car and belong to a couple of vintage car clubs and I own a Luton Minor and belong to the Suffolk Coastal Strut.
What is common in all 3 of these interests is a lack of young people and regular discussions take place on how to attract younger people to these interests.

I will be attending a motorcycle committee meeting tonight and the agenda is about the purchase of a couple of electric Trials bikes (Oset) to use to encourage young people to come along and have ago. We have enough money in the club to make the purchase but I am worried about the necessary support from the members to keep this scheme running.

I attended a vintage car club event a few weeks ago and at 53 I think I was probably the youngest at the event.

On a different but probably related note. I am on the brink of giving up flying and selling my plane. One of the main reasons can be summed up by my experience with a Vintage Plane Club event at Duxford a couple of years back. This is just one example I can relate others.

I spotted the event on the web site and thought it would be nice to meet a few like minded people. Duxford is only half an hour from my base even flying a Luton Minor. I landed and taxed up and parked as directed by some marshals next to the line of various Cubs, Austers etc. I Was told by the marshals that the owners were in the room below the control tower so wandered over. About 3 different gaggles of people all who obviously knew each other. Tried to get into some conversations but obviously as I was not known and a stranger no body was interested in talking to me or making me welcome so after about an hour I left and flew home. My longest possibly only conversation of the day was with the lady in the museum shop taking my landing fee. When I got home my wife asked if I had a nice day and quite frankly I had not. I will never attend a Vintage Plane Club event again and to be honest I have not been to the rally for the last two years for probably very similar reasons.

Stuart

[Paul Catanach]

Stuart

That's a real shame but having experienced exactly the same at other venues in the past I understand how you feel. I took the decision to plough my own furrow and now fly around mostly alone.

If you fancy bringing the Minor to Nuthampstead for a visit drop me a line.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Stuart. In all walks of life you will meet grade A dicks, aviation certainly has its share but I haven't found that it has any more than any other activity.
Conversation and friendship are a two way street though, you have to make the effort to engage with people, and I know not everybody finds that easy to do, but blaming aviation or any other aspect of life because you get the odd knock is only ever going to hurt you, nobody else.
I've always found aviation people in general and LAA people in particular to be friendly and helpful and quite honestly if you are turning up at an LAA Rally and can't find anybody to talk to, then you really can't be making much of an effort.
Ask yourself this - if you see what you deem to be an impenetrable clique of people, were they born as a single unit or did each of them somehow befriend the others at some time in the past? I don't think I've ever met a clique, I've met plenty of groups of mates who inevitably chat together when they meet. We all do that, it's human nature.
Come to the Rally next year and if you see a bat fastard with a name tag on who looks a bit like the bloke in the front of the mag, it's probably me. I promise I'll talk to you if you come and say hello.

[Mike Potts]

Hello Stuart,
I am wondering if it is the type of flying you are doing?
Although I would like my own aircraft I decided to "dip my toe in", by joining a group.
I have found a group 2 seater gave me the opportunity to fly with another group member or friend or anyone else interested. And if you want solitude you can always go by yourself.
Have you ever considered sharing your flying experience?
My wife does not like a "bimle" but does like going "somewhere", we have just returned from a trip to Venice via Austria and Poland and I am sure she did enjoy the experience.
Mike

[Chris Martyr]

Hi Stuart.
I implore you not to stop flying just because of a handful of snooty pilots. [obviously not LAA'ers ]. Further to Pauls remark, I can tell you that if you fly into where I'm based [Deanland] you will also be received very well.
I reckon that it's the larger events where one probably blends into the background a lot easier.
People tend to become de-sensitised by the vast array of machinery . I notice this particularly at Goodwood Revival when trudging back through the tax-exempt car park at the end of the day. It's easy to walk past vintage Bentleys , Ferrari's etc etc with hardly a second glance. Whereas if they turned up at your local pub , they'd cause a sensation.
Like you, I'm a classic car owner/enthusiast myself and have made very similar observations regarding the vintage/classic scene , there are certain types of car [and price bracket] that are more attainable and appealing to gents of a certain vintage , but we mustn't go kidding ourselves that the younger generation aren't interested. Just have a quick flick through a Mini magazine and see some of the incredible machinery some of these little buggers are producing, mostly all their own work. Likewise with air-cooled VW's and mostly to a very high standard too !
Look also at sports like moto-x and karting , fantastically well subscribed to by kids from very young age groups. So they're not all vegging out or glued to their I-pads.

We tend to beat ourselves up over the flying thing. Quite unnecessarily in my view. I don't know any LAA'ers who are not more than happy to impart their knowledge and enthusiasm to the younger generation and the younger ones are normally very happy to receive it, but as Brian Davies said, ours is not a cheap hobby to pursue and it normally requires one to be career-established and hopefully heading towards being mortgage-free before any real aviation fun starts. It's not our fault that we pursue this wonderful pastime of ours and I'm sure that many LAA'ers have made sacrifices elsewhere in order to make the numbers stack up ,,,but probably the biggest truth of all,,,what is of great assistance when buying an aeroplane ? Yes, an inheritance. OK I know it's a bit brutal but how many of those super whizz-bangs you see at fly-in's are there thanks to old Auntie Mabel dropping off her perch.

So Stuart, don't worry. As long as we fire up the younger generations with enthusiasm, that is our part done. Enjoy your flying and ignore the snotty so & so's ! Then one day , when them youngsters are fully fledged and moving towards their 'golden years' , we will be winding down and they'll be ready .
It's called evolution ! And isn't the LAA in about as good a state of health than it's ever been ?

[RichardMaxted]

Trying to find a route into a conversation at these sorts of specialist gatherings is always hard when there is nothing to "make conversation" about. It is so much easier if it is a gaggle standing around an aeroplane as a compliment never goes amiss as an opening gambit.

I have lost count of the number of occasions when I must have seemed a clique of one. I am sure everyone has been there - tinkering or cleaning the aeroplane and you suddenly realise that "Someone Is Watching" from that distance that is neither close enough to talk or far away enough to be merely passing by. I tend to use an invitation to look in the cockpit as an ice breaker.

I, too, have felt sort of peripheral at some airfields and gatherings. But I think it is inevitable to a certain extent. There are few activities quite so designed to reveal my English Insecurities as dropping in unannounced in a new place with people I have never met and with whom I am only going to spend a short period of time.

For myself, as I usually fly solo, if I want more than a quiet coffee I am still trying not to be afraid of making a bit of a fool of myself by risking a conversation. More often than not I am pleasantly surprised.

[Chris Martyr]

Come to the Rally next year and if you see a bat fastard with a name tag on who looks a bit like the bloke in the front of the mag, it's probably me. I promise I'll talk to you if you come and say hello.

Be very careful here guys ! Our Chairman has made reference in two separate posts now to the fact that he is looking for a dozen more Brian Hope's. So make sure it really is 'im !

Sorry , but I still keep thinking of that Python sketch with all the Alan Whickers in it.....

[rogcal]

First of all Stuart I'm pleased to see you are getting aloft in your Minor but not so pleased to read you are thinking of selling the old girl.

I've lost count of the times when flying my Minor and Veep into a gathering of some kind i.e. fly-in, rally, etc and sidled up to a group of people in the hopes of engaging in some friendly banter, only to be completely ignored.

I found the solution was to fly in the opposite direction to any of these gatherings and fetch up at an airfield or strip I'd never visited before and on almost all occasions was made welcome and finally departed after making new friends with the people I'd met.

I know it sounds a weird formulae to follow but it worked for me and I put it down to the fact that those others who wanted to avoid the cliques were doing as I did and kept away from the places the cliques gathered.

p.s. you've still yet to grace my strip with your presence.
p.p.s make it soon as I'm selling up and I've no idea if any potential purchaser will keep the strip open

[Chris Martyr]

If I land away or go to a fly-in with my baby, G-EVPI , then as far as I am concerned , it's the aeroplanes who are the stars. If their owners just happen to be thoroughly pleasant and approachable people then that's an added bonus in my eyes. But if the opposite is applicable then I tend to switch off but nod politely.
Same with classic car events. The airfield where I'm based has hosted MG weekends in the past [ I deliberately take my Triumph to these ] One year I made the mistake of becoming attached to this insufferable bore and after a few minutes it became apparent that he actually hadn't turned a spanner on this MGC of his . All done by his 'garage chappie' you know ! Car was nice but he was one of Brian's earlier referred to "Grade A" varieties though .

But equally, I remember at Kemble 2003 [I think ?] finding this delightful little J.A.P engined Luton Minor amongst the rows and rows of RV's and Europa's and was very privileged to be engaged in conversation by the delightful Gent who owned the aeroplane, Richard Webber . So it works positively too !

So Stuart, take the rough with the smooth mate . Next lot of "Grade A's" you meet, just pretend they're all standing around wearing saggy Y-fronts. Any more of these bad thoughts about giving up flying and I'll fly up to your strip and give you a jolly good talking to . [ Nicely,,of course ]

[Ian Hoolahan]

Is this an opportunity to maybe have a few "meeters and greeters" at the rally who would work as intermediaries for those that do not know anyone, otherwise, maybe some sort of stick on badge with first name and aircraft type, as least this gives people a starting point for a conversation, those that dont want to interact can leave the badge off.

[AWMN]

Thank you for the reply's and sorry If I have hi-jacked the thread. The bottom line is the plane is not for sale. I know deep down if I sold my Luton Minor I would regret it. I love the grass roots end of aviation that is flying a Luton Minor. I have the privilege to have a hanger space at Waits Farm, a small farm strip in North Essex where the owner and the small group of other owners are very friendly. I belong to the Suffolk Coastal strut (Or I would if I got round to paying this years subs!) and this group are very friendly and welcoming. An evening local bible is just fantastic and a brilliant way to blow away the cobwebs of a working day.

I flew an evening local trip a while back and returning back to my home strip spotted a hot air balloon approaching at fairly low level. The balloon crossed the middle of the strip at probably about 20 feet so I did a circuit round the balloon turning finals as it crossed the runway. At the edge of the strip near the threshold was stood a stag. I held off a bit long to get passed the stag and passed by him at about 15 feet up less than 30 feet apart with us both making eye contact. After landing I turned round but he was gone. Trips like this make it all worth while.

I suspect I am also suffering from with draw symptoms. This year I have been doing major work to my house and with full time work have hardly had any time to get near my plane. Next year I plan to change this.

I do find that when landing away the experience can be varied. I landed at Old buck once and got talking to a guy visiting in a pre war Alvis car who told me that this was owned during the war by the Dehavilland designer Ronald Bishop who is credited with designing the Mosquito. Very enjoyable chat over several cups of coffee, but another time parked up next to the Tiger club Turbulent team at Stow Maries and despite thinking I would have a lot in common found them quite anti Social and not wanting to chat.

Just renewed my LAA membership and have my medical Thursday (might be my last with rule changes and self declaration) so I will be around for some time to come.

Stuart

[Brian Hope]

Hi Stuart, much work going on behind the scenes to resolve the unintended consequences of the Self Declaration Medical. I hope things will be resolved soon so that anybody who currently flies, or has flown, on an NPPL Medical Declaration will be able to continue as before with a Self Declaration.

[Chris Martyr]

An evening local bible is just fantastic and a brilliant way to blow away the cobwebs of a working day. Stuart

Hey Stuart , what you mean you drop by the Vicarage first and take a quick blessing prior to take-off ?
Glad to hear that you are going to Carry on Flying , at least I don't have to fly up to your strip for that 'stern word' .