Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
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- mikehallam
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Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
PRESS RELEASE – 21 June 2017 For immediate release In a joint effort the European Federation of Light, Experimental & Vintage Aircraft (EFLEVA), the Vereniging Vlaamse MotorVliegclubs (VVMV) and the Belgian Aviation Authorities we are pleased to announce that [b]amateur-built and certain historic aircraft registered in European Civil Aviation Conference (ECAC) member states no longer require a permit to over fly Belgian territory for 30 days in a calendar year.[/b] A Royal Decré has been published on 21 June 2017 which confirms and details this change. It comes in effect on 1 July.
N.B. Roger Hopkinson - President EFLEVA – [email protected] / +44 (0)7770 68 22 20
N.B. Roger Hopkinson - President EFLEVA – [email protected] / +44 (0)7770 68 22 20
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Yes well done Roger and the team!!
That saves an awful lot of 'faff'.
Maybe some one could verify if the DFT were in anyway involved?
John.
That saves an awful lot of 'faff'.
Maybe some one could verify if the DFT were in anyway involved?
John.
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- Alan Kilbride
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
That is brilliant. Thanks Roger and your team. We just need free access to all countries now. I know you are working hard on this.
Alan
Alan
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
The royal decree exempts amateur-built aircraft with a national permit to fly.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/47we7u3bws1ni ... 1.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/47we7u3bws1ni ... 1.pdf?dl=0
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Hi Paul, I'm afraid it does not include factory-built gyrocopters because the Royal Decree actually recognises the ECAC agreements of 1980 (amateur-built aircraft) and 2015 (historic aircraft that have held a CoA - which means it excludes 'pure' ex military types). I do not know whether amateur built gyros are included in the amateur built aircraft definition or not.
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Hello,
Can anybody tell me if Chipmunks on a Permit are now free to go to Belgium?
Thanks in advance,
Guillaume
Can anybody tell me if Chipmunks on a Permit are now free to go to Belgium?
Thanks in advance,
Guillaume
Guillaume D'hoore
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
The Chipmunk probably meets the criteria for exemption:
- It had a CofA and is now operated under a national permit to fly or a restricted CofA
- it is
- it is not operated commercially.
But don't take my word for it, as that is only my interpretation of the royal decree.
- It had a CofA and is now operated under a national permit to fly or a restricted CofA
- it is
- its MTOM is less than 5700kga) historic aircraft meeting the criteria below:
(i) non-complex aircraft whose:
— initial design was established before 1 January 1955, and
— production has been stopped before 1 January 1975;
- it is not operated commercially.
But don't take my word for it, as that is only my interpretation of the royal decree.
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Thank you Donald. What you say makes sense...
I might send the Belgian CAA an email, just to be sure, because one is never sure
I might send the Belgian CAA an email, just to be sure, because one is never sure
Guillaume D'hoore
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Well, I'm glad I checked with the Belgian CAA directly.
In the email I received back is a recap of the Royal Decree. When it came down to "historical aircraft originally factory-manufactured", this is what they had to say:
"However, upon consultation of the UK CAA Aircraft Register, I noticed that the subject aircraft was built under licence by the Oficinas Gerais de Material Aeronáutico (Portugal) for the Portugese Air Force (not UK built). As a consequence, the subject aircraft would not comply with the above criteria, and a permission to fly over Belgian territory would still be required."
So a UK built Chipmunk is ok, a Portuguese one not! I personally think this could be open to debate, but there it is...
I hope this post will be found helpful.
Best regards,
Guillaume
In the email I received back is a recap of the Royal Decree. When it came down to "historical aircraft originally factory-manufactured", this is what they had to say:
"However, upon consultation of the UK CAA Aircraft Register, I noticed that the subject aircraft was built under licence by the Oficinas Gerais de Material Aeronáutico (Portugal) for the Portugese Air Force (not UK built). As a consequence, the subject aircraft would not comply with the above criteria, and a permission to fly over Belgian territory would still be required."
So a UK built Chipmunk is ok, a Portuguese one not! I personally think this could be open to debate, but there it is...
I hope this post will be found helpful.
Best regards,
Guillaume
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Guillaume,
I don't think their answer is quite correct.
I didn't think the "new" permission only applied to UK manufactured historic aircraft.
I own a US built historic aircraft (1948 Piper) and was under the impression these were now covered.
In the past I have obtained a Belgian permit (EUR 90 now I believe) and also a temporary permit last year (EUR 10) for the Oldtimer fly-in at Diest.
Tony Nowak
I don't think their answer is quite correct.
I didn't think the "new" permission only applied to UK manufactured historic aircraft.
I own a US built historic aircraft (1948 Piper) and was under the impression these were now covered.
In the past I have obtained a Belgian permit (EUR 90 now I believe) and also a temporary permit last year (EUR 10) for the Oldtimer fly-in at Diest.
Tony Nowak
Tony Nowak
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Hi Tony,
Thanks for your feedback. Me too I'm a bit puzzled by their way of reasoning tbh. But now they have sent this email, I don't think there is an easy way to 'appeal' their decision... If you have any suggestions I'm listening of course.
I found the Decree a bit vague, and that's why I sent them the email. An insurance company would certainly have double checked that in case of an accident, and from there on it could have become a lengthy legal struggle.
I'm not planning a trip to Belgium very often, but for now a last minute decision remains impossible unfortunately...
G
Thanks for your feedback. Me too I'm a bit puzzled by their way of reasoning tbh. But now they have sent this email, I don't think there is an easy way to 'appeal' their decision... If you have any suggestions I'm listening of course.
I found the Decree a bit vague, and that's why I sent them the email. An insurance company would certainly have double checked that in case of an accident, and from there on it could have become a lengthy legal struggle.
I'm not planning a trip to Belgium very often, but for now a last minute decision remains impossible unfortunately...
G
Guillaume D'hoore
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Hi Tony, I am somewhat bemused by their interpretation of the ECAC 'vintage' recommendation too, so I have emailed somebody who will know better than I whether it is questionable. By their stated interpretation, Canadian built Chippies would not meet the ECAC criteria either.
The spirit of the recommendation is that aircraft types that have held a CoA but are now on a Permit or restricted CoA meet the requirements. Only a small number of 'pure' warbirds, aircraft that were never on a civilian register with a CoA but have only ever been approved for civilianised flight from the outset on a Permit or restricted CoA, usually fall outside the recommendation criteria. I can see that a Portuguese built Chipmunk that was never put on a CoA in Portugal or the UK, but went directly onto a Permit or restricted CoA, might be considered a 'pure' warbird, but in light of the rest of the Chipmunk fleet, that does seem a mite pedantic.
Rgds, Brian
The spirit of the recommendation is that aircraft types that have held a CoA but are now on a Permit or restricted CoA meet the requirements. Only a small number of 'pure' warbirds, aircraft that were never on a civilian register with a CoA but have only ever been approved for civilianised flight from the outset on a Permit or restricted CoA, usually fall outside the recommendation criteria. I can see that a Portuguese built Chipmunk that was never put on a CoA in Portugal or the UK, but went directly onto a Permit or restricted CoA, might be considered a 'pure' warbird, but in light of the rest of the Chipmunk fleet, that does seem a mite pedantic.
Rgds, Brian
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
Did that particular aircraft ever have a CofA? It may be that they are (mistakenly?) applying the rule to individual aircraft rather than the type.
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Re: Belgium Free again -- EFLEVA
@Donald: not sure tbh, I'll need to investigate
Guillaume D'hoore
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