as I understand there is NO laa cash underwriting regional rallies. the financial wounds of previous rally losses appear to have prevented the provision of even a modest float to those organising this years regional rallies - bricks without straw springs to mind
Personally I think the efforts of those dreaming of of a revitalised national rally would be better spent supporting the regional rallies which could be of a similar size and atmosphere to the rallies they remember and provide more than one a year with minimal risk of write offs due to weather and financial extravagance which led to the demise of the former national rally.
What's in a mane?
Return of the Rally?
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
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John Brady
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:39 pm
I think that in the fullness of time, one regional rally will emerge as being popular, well organised and financially viable. It may be that several do. It/they will then grow organically into the event/s we enjoyed before. After all the original rally did not beam down from the planet Tharg ready formed and in its full glory. It grew from small beginnings and in a manner appropriate to its means and support.
I stuck my neck out in support of the last "basic" national rally which was a mess and cost us shed loads of money that was not in the budget. I won't do that again.
John
I stuck my neck out in support of the last "basic" national rally which was a mess and cost us shed loads of money that was not in the budget. I won't do that again.
John
Last year there was certainly a contingency allowed for the regional rallies - it wasn't being organised solely at the expense and risk of the local Strut.
I doubt that any Strut would take on the organisation of a regional rally without the promise of support for the basic costs if the event was weathered off.
I doubt that any Strut would take on the organisation of a regional rally without the promise of support for the basic costs if the event was weathered off.
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
"...as I understand there is NO laa cash underwriting regional rallies. the financial wounds of previous rally losses appear to have prevented the provision of even a modest float to those organising this years regional rallies - bricks without straw springs to mind"
Well Josher I'm afraid you understand incorrectly. There WAS PFA funding (and IS LAA funding) to offset financial loss by a Strut running a Regional, and Devon Strut had its 2007 losses covered when the weather caused its event to be a complete washout. This contingency was put in place from the outset of the Regional Rally concept, and remains in place for the 2008 events - sounding off without knowing the facts springs to mind.
Talk of a single national event is very premature. No proposal has yet been put to EC and when (if) one is it will have to make very sound financial sense. The Rally committee were supposed to put a proposal to the EC at the tail end of last year for a 2008 event but it did not materialise.
Well Josher I'm afraid you understand incorrectly. There WAS PFA funding (and IS LAA funding) to offset financial loss by a Strut running a Regional, and Devon Strut had its 2007 losses covered when the weather caused its event to be a complete washout. This contingency was put in place from the outset of the Regional Rally concept, and remains in place for the 2008 events - sounding off without knowing the facts springs to mind.
Talk of a single national event is very premature. No proposal has yet been put to EC and when (if) one is it will have to make very sound financial sense. The Rally committee were supposed to put a proposal to the EC at the tail end of last year for a 2008 event but it did not materialise.
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Bill McCarthy
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:06 pm
- Location: Caithness
I (alone) organised the "Northern Lights" regional rally at Wick last year. Sixty five very brave souls from as far afield as southern Ireland and Devon made it to the event with almost half as much again erring on the side of caution and not proceeding so far north due to the hailstorm conditions on the way. Although I am on the "bones of my backside" I was prepared to finance the event out of my own pocket. Total event cost was £150 pounds which was for trophies and rosettes - which my local strut insisted in reimbursing me for. As I have said many times before, the challenge was to get here and it was a no frills attached event. I am not in the least angry at having another venue stage a regional event. It's a good idea to have some sort of "rotation" of places to meet up at.
I'm in favour of the "back to basics" approach to these events. I certainly am prepared to rough it, and do not expect to be pampered with shower cubicles and such like. I know that a major outlay at the PFA main event was for the hire of toilet and shower facilities. A venue with "adequate" toilet facilities - next to the beer tent is all that is required.
I suppose the double decker PFA bus is long gone, but what is wrong with the association seeking some sort of grant to PURCHASE things like portacabin toilet facilities for the event. They could be stored at Turweston and hired out to non aviation events as a means of income.
The annual rally was my holiday, and yes, I would very much like to see it's re-establishment.
I'm in favour of the "back to basics" approach to these events. I certainly am prepared to rough it, and do not expect to be pampered with shower cubicles and such like. I know that a major outlay at the PFA main event was for the hire of toilet and shower facilities. A venue with "adequate" toilet facilities - next to the beer tent is all that is required.
I suppose the double decker PFA bus is long gone, but what is wrong with the association seeking some sort of grant to PURCHASE things like portacabin toilet facilities for the event. They could be stored at Turweston and hired out to non aviation events as a means of income.
The annual rally was my holiday, and yes, I would very much like to see it's re-establishment.
Bill,
Your rally was the best of the lot last year, and I got to them all except Dunkeswell (the weather defeated me on that one). This year I may not bother with any of the regional events, but I have not made a final decision yet. If you do another fly in at Wick, let me know, or I may just come up and say hi.
Rod1
Your rally was the best of the lot last year, and I got to them all except Dunkeswell (the weather defeated me on that one). This year I may not bother with any of the regional events, but I have not made a final decision yet. If you do another fly in at Wick, let me know, or I may just come up and say hi.
Rod1
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
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- Location: Sheerness Kent
It is somewhat unreasonable to condemn the Regionals as not as good as a single event after only one season, particularly as all of them were affected by poor weather last year.
Lessons have been learned and with some sunshine and a fair wind I expect them all to be better this year. The first will be next weekend at Dunkeswell, and considering that the Devon Strut's not inconsiderable efforts were totally nullified by the weather last year, I hope that members will make a special effort to support them this year. I hope to fly in on Friday evening and stay for the weekend.
Lessons have been learned and with some sunshine and a fair wind I expect them all to be better this year. The first will be next weekend at Dunkeswell, and considering that the Devon Strut's not inconsiderable efforts were totally nullified by the weather last year, I hope that members will make a special effort to support them this year. I hope to fly in on Friday evening and stay for the weekend.
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Geoff. Collins
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:10 pm
- Location: East Midlands
Regional rallies
It's all down to weather isn't it? If conditions are not suitable,then there is a shortage of aircraft.The enthusiasts don't hang around.The stallholders complain of no customers, and say they won't bother next year. Although I would love to see a big rally back, I can understand why there may not be one --yet.
Meanwhile,we should try and support the regionals or they may fizzle out too.
I drove to Hucknall last year, it was worth the £3 entry just to watch the Lancaster perform. Anything else there was a bonus, for me anyway.
Meanwhile,we should try and support the regionals or they may fizzle out too.
I drove to Hucknall last year, it was worth the £3 entry just to watch the Lancaster perform. Anything else there was a bonus, for me anyway.
“It is somewhat unreasonable to condemn the Regionals as not as good as a single event after only one season, particularly as all of them were affected by poor weather last year.”
The weather was not too bad at most of the events, Dunkeswell accepted. It was not perfect, but this is the UK, we can use the weather as an excuse whenever we like. I do not know anybody who thinks the regionals will be better than a single main event. We were forced down the regional rought by rising H & S hassle and rising cost. I do not know if the new team can solve this. In the medium term if we join up with the BMAA, then I would hope we can. If we are going to run regional events then my guess is we will end up with one which grows much bigger than the rest. This will then become the “main LAA event” whatever you call it. It would also be a good idea for the LAA to support events like Wick which are fun to fly to. Whatever we do can we please keep airside access, camping by aircraft, and any “airshow” to an absolute minimum.
I was taking part in the Luscome tour this weekend, but work commitments have got in the way. I may dash over to Dunkeswell on the Saturday and have a look.
Rod1
The weather was not too bad at most of the events, Dunkeswell accepted. It was not perfect, but this is the UK, we can use the weather as an excuse whenever we like. I do not know anybody who thinks the regionals will be better than a single main event. We were forced down the regional rought by rising H & S hassle and rising cost. I do not know if the new team can solve this. In the medium term if we join up with the BMAA, then I would hope we can. If we are going to run regional events then my guess is we will end up with one which grows much bigger than the rest. This will then become the “main LAA event” whatever you call it. It would also be a good idea for the LAA to support events like Wick which are fun to fly to. Whatever we do can we please keep airside access, camping by aircraft, and any “airshow” to an absolute minimum.
I was taking part in the Luscome tour this weekend, but work commitments have got in the way. I may dash over to Dunkeswell on the Saturday and have a look.
Rod1
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Bill McCarthy
- Posts: 488
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- Location: Caithness
Apart from the weather, the main complaint is a regional rally coinciding with another major aviation event. The rough weather you are experiencing down south is what we normally get at this time of year. We have had drought conditions for a month now and weatherwise I could have staged a rally up here in Wick every day for the last four weeks. Could we have our rain back please - at least for a couple of days. Wick certainly has the capacity to receive a full blown LAA rally. The airport staff were a bit uneasy about arrival numbers last year but as the event progressed they were really impressed by the airmanship displayed by our members. It is a wartime aerodrome and it was the largest gathering of aircraft since the war on the day. There are absolutely no noise protesters up here regarding aircraft and all can be assured of a warm welcome no matter when they arrive. This area needs a larger fly-in event. For instance, you in the south may see a Spitfire, Hurricane or the BBMF regularly and within easy reach, but I am certain that the whole of the north of Scotland and the Orkneys would turn out to see them as they never venture this far. Rolls Royce actually contacted me earlier on in the year enquiring if we wanted their Spitfire to attend the Wick fly-in. Imagine the disappointment of having to inform them that the Wick event was deferred in favour of other events down south. Be in no doubt that I am going to have another fly-in next year. This may well be an area where anthing more than four vehicles in a row is classed as a traffic jam but we really need more visiting aviators up here. You guys are heading in the wrong direction - forget the continent, come north !
I am still very much in favour of a main LAA rally. If not every year, then perhaps every two years, to reduce the financial burden and to placate any non flying members from deserting the Association.
I am still very much in favour of a main LAA rally. If not every year, then perhaps every two years, to reduce the financial burden and to placate any non flying members from deserting the Association.
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Nigel Hitchman
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:10 pm
- Location: Hinton in the hedges
Well I look forward to Bill's next Wick fly-in, hopefully I will make it next year, weather and work permitting!
I think regional rallys have their place, just like they did when they were called strut fly-ins and if they are a bit bigger then great. But I dont think they replace the annual rally which is very sorely missed by many people. So many pilots I meet say they wished we still had the rally and hope it comes back and all the enthusiasts I know say the same. It is a pity that whereas 10 years ago, nerly every enthusiast I knew was a PFA member, now its less than a quarter I would guess, although the cost of membership is one aspect, they all say the same, no point in being a member if there isnt going to be a rally.
Certainly there needs to be a better control of finances than there was before, but this will be helped by some of the worst offenders at spending the money no longer being involved. And I think some others have also more than got the message that it has to be low budget back to basics when we do it again.
Sywell seem to be very enthusiastic about having the rally back there and very willing to contribute to the running and reducing the costs. A lot of things that cost a lot of money at Kemble either wont be needed or will be available a lot cheaper with Sywell's help.
However good a regional rally might be, it just isnt a focus for people, yes a great fly-in and lots of fun, but I dont think you are ever going to attract many exhibitors or lots of foreign visitors to a small regional event, or even our friends from closer by but still far away like Scotland or Ireland.
I think regional rallys have their place, just like they did when they were called strut fly-ins and if they are a bit bigger then great. But I dont think they replace the annual rally which is very sorely missed by many people. So many pilots I meet say they wished we still had the rally and hope it comes back and all the enthusiasts I know say the same. It is a pity that whereas 10 years ago, nerly every enthusiast I knew was a PFA member, now its less than a quarter I would guess, although the cost of membership is one aspect, they all say the same, no point in being a member if there isnt going to be a rally.
Certainly there needs to be a better control of finances than there was before, but this will be helped by some of the worst offenders at spending the money no longer being involved. And I think some others have also more than got the message that it has to be low budget back to basics when we do it again.
Sywell seem to be very enthusiastic about having the rally back there and very willing to contribute to the running and reducing the costs. A lot of things that cost a lot of money at Kemble either wont be needed or will be available a lot cheaper with Sywell's help.
However good a regional rally might be, it just isnt a focus for people, yes a great fly-in and lots of fun, but I dont think you are ever going to attract many exhibitors or lots of foreign visitors to a small regional event, or even our friends from closer by but still far away like Scotland or Ireland.