Background information to AGM tiered membership proposal

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Rod1
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Post by Rod1 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:23 pm

If you are interested in the BMAA’s view on our new membership structure;

http://www.bmaa.org/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=37539

Please do not shoot the messenger… :wink:

Rod1
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macconnacher
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Post by macconnacher » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:50 am

Dont knock the non flyers and those of a certain age. Many of them did fly at some time and have a good knowledge which we can use. Not all those who are young, with children and who fly have the time to devote to helping run the organisation.
We have a society that is increasingly cash rich and time poor in the UK (though the credit crunch might change this) so they do not want to take part they just want to get in their RV when they have the time and fly. The members who have been here for a long time had a stark choice: run it yourself or have no hope of flying except at club level where you could rent the club 150 as long as it was only during the flying instructors lunch break. We wanted more than that and the right to build our own and fly it.

Thus it is only when we get older that we have time to put something back into the organisation and it was always like this in ULAA, PFA and I guess in most organisations in the UK.
Stuart Macconnacher
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J.C.
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Post by J.C. » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:06 am

Macconnacher, your post seems a little bitter to me,whilst lots of what you say is true, the point that I was making is that the bulk of the membership are getting very old (in flying terms) and due to lack of money associated with low pensions, difficulty in keeping medicals and actually dying (old age), we are in a situation like the hole in the bucket syndrome.If there's nothing coming into the bucket,it WILL empty!
Anyway must go..just time for a quick hop in my RV before my 60th birthday.
John Cook
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mikehallam
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Post by mikehallam » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:29 am

Stop squabbling you young ones in your 60's !

The whole country's average age has risen: old age doesn't start till you are approaching 90 at least.

Nowadays there are many more leisure activities trawled before our infants, inc. football, the great British religion.

Flying is just another rather expensive & fairly solitary hobby, best commenced when you are settled in a career & earning dosh. Hence our older enthusiastic members are those best able to serve, often bringing essential business know-how & connections to the executive.
I am ever grateful for their time and dedication.

howard bradley
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Membership proposal

Post by howard bradley » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:42 pm

Thanks Mike , yes I am over 70 and flying like a Gud -un , had a bit of a shake up recently regarding Ethanol ,but have this sorted now thanks to Brian , staying with LAA ,what a team , don`t know what made me think of changing , yes I do old age , take care all you flyers and be old but not BOLD

Dave Hall
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Post by Dave Hall » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:53 pm

They don't stop my friend who is 79 now, and got his PPL about 2 yrs ago!
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J.C.
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Post by J.C. » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:00 am

There's a lot of misunderstanding/thread drift crept into this post.To clarify my point,Put in the most simple terms....IF no younger members join the LAA,eventually in the not too distant future most of the existing members will be too old to do anything or indeed DEAD.
This is a simple fact of life.
It is not aimed at anyone,it is not an ageist comment.
I aree that the older members have much to contribute and in a way that is my point.How do we communicate with the youngsters to share our experience and enthusiasm?
The schools (youth) project is excellent and much hard work has been done but as has been pointed out, most of those will have to do quite a bit of growing and raising families before they can afford to fly.
If you look at the average gliding club their membership is much younger.Is it because it is (perceived to be) cheaper?Is it because it is more social?OR is it because the LAA is one of the best kept secrets in aviation????
John Cook
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Bill McCarthy
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Post by Bill McCarthy » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:18 am

At the risk of boring everyone to death on the subject, I'll say again, we MUST spread the message of what we are about, OUTSIDE the aviation world. We are really a small, but country wide organisation which is only known to a few, even within the flying fraternity. The Andover strut has taken the lead and we must encourage others to mirror their efforts. I am certainly willing to give it a go. Winter time, when flying can be limited, is the time to promote our association. I just hope this message does not fall on stoney groung.

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Jim Gale
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Post by Jim Gale » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:07 am

The effort by Andover has motivated me to ask Exeter City Council if we could display the Build a Plane in the city centre some time in the Spring. We will man the stand with Devon Strut members together with Exeter Air Scouts and Barnstaple Venture Scouts, all of whom helped to build the aeroplane, "Spirit of Devon Youth - G-SPDY". This will promote the LAA and hopefully inspire more youngsters. 2009 should see G-SPDY flying and hopefully we will get it to several air shows for the public to see. We are at SPLASH this weekend.
It all helps to make the public aware of the LAA and we would encourage those interested to come along to a Strut evening or fly-in, hopefully get them to join the Strut and then the LAA.
Cheers,
Jim.
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Nigel Hitchman
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Post by Nigel Hitchman » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:56 am

Sounds good Jim, but then again the Devon strut do seem to do a great job in most things.

Im wondering about trying to attract the general public, which is a great idea, but we need to do a better job with them than we do with another group of people who are already interested in aviation, but at many places we at best ignore, or even worse activly discourage. namely aircraft enthusiasts/spotters/photgraphers.
Although the majority of airfields/strips are friendly and allow people to have a look around, at how many places do people get asked, do you want to come for a quick ride. Yes in some cases they wont want to go- some dont like flying but still have great enthusiasm for aviation and some have a tight schedule, but some others would love to go for a ride and rarely get the chance.
And then there are the other places, where you just get told, no you cant look in the hangar, you cant go airside (at a small airfield) with all sorts of excuses, mostly made up.
I find it very funny sometimes on small airfields when I am walking around taking pictures, to get accosted by somebody asking me what Im doing and how did I get there in an officious voice, to tell them " well I just arrived in that aircraft over there" then to see them scurrying off red faced and disappointed that they couldnt kick someone out from their little kingdom. Its funny you never get this in the USA, only a friendly welcome.

I even know enthusiasts who are strut members and welcomed at strut meetings, but dont get told about strut fly-ins at small strips, not mentioned in the strut newsletter!

So perhaps we better start by being more welcoming to our alreay captive audience! I know many already are so this isnt a general criticism.

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Rod1
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Post by Rod1 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:23 am

If we want to expand membership then the first group we need to target are existing pilots. If we contacted them stressing the work we do (outside home built aircraft) then you would expect to get a result. It will also lead to a high profile debate and AOPA will react to this more aggressive approach.

If we want to attract younger members then we need to look at it from their point of view. When I started flying in 1984 I took up Gliding because it was the only form of flying I could afford. I joined the PFA in 1991 and got my first permit aircraft in 1994 ish. In those days the PFA offered the cheapest solution to 3 X power flying. This is now no longer the case. We must also not overestimate the value of the mag. Most people my age and younger look to the web, not the printed page. My 17 year old son runs his entire life via the web and considers anything printed to be automatically out of date/boring. If he were considering flying he would judge us 100% on our web and forum. If he found an interesting looking aircraft at the local shopping centre, he would research on the net when he got home.

Given the economic outlook it is likely the number of active pilots and aircraft owners will drop significantly. The key to our success is to attract a greater % of pilots/enthusiasts to keep our membership numbers up. I am not sure we can offer bargain basement flying but we can offer a good record on representation.

Rod1
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Nick Allen
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Post by Nick Allen » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:31 pm

My 17 year old son runs his entire life via the web and considers anything printed to be automatically out of date/boring.
Sounds like we need an LAA Facebook group...
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josher
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Post by josher » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:27 pm

The motion for two tier membership of the association was approved at the AGM with a majority of 3:1 in favour. The declared intention of the change was to increase income by retention of and increase in that proportion of the membership not tied to membership by their ownership of a permit a/c or build project. Few will question that the future security of the Association lies in achieving this objective. In effect the plan is to separate membership of the Association from involvement with permit aircraft and to offer magazine subscription and voting rights at a cost comparable with subscription to other flying magazines. We were assured that this would be done by a lowering the basic membership cost rather than increasing the cost of membership plus [terrible name – what about engineering membership]

Whether the focus on expansion of magazine subscription is likely to achieve this must be doubtful. In the first instance income will be lost as current members who are not flyers or fly CofA aircraft opt for the lower cost membership. These losses must be recovered before any additional income stream is generated. The low attendance at the AGM shows that voting rights are hardly highly prized within our existing membership and subscription to one aviation monthly or another is no less fickle than our current churning membership.

The key to increasing membership of the Association is surely in persuading those recreational flyers not currently members that their support of the Association is a significant contribution to securing a positive future for recreational flying. Neither the magazine nor the current LAA Today addresses this point with any vigour. There is an internal message that our representatives wield influence within the UK political and regulatory establishment on aviation matters and that we are exercising leadership in the developing European regulation of recreational aviation. This is grossly undersold within our organisation much less outside it. The cost of these activities relative to others has never been reported. Future expansion of membership must lie in effectively communicating to non members the influence our organisation wields and the achievements it has made in the regulatory area, at the same time clearly setting out the financial cost that this involves and that this activity cannot be effectively sustained without their support.
The one thing on which I agree totally with the EC is that any recreational flyer should feel guilty in not supporting LAA [or an equivalent organisation] every time his/her wheels leave the ground!
Malcolm Rogan
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