Jodel 1050

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:58 am

Out of interest, what does a new O-200 cost? I know there are second-hand options, but I was curious how the price stacks up against a modern engine like the UL260.

Graham Clark · Post by **Graham Clark** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:27 pm

Brian, I think you were reading a little too much into my earlier Potez observations. I didn't say that the Potez is a superior engine. Rather, that if it is a choice for a potential owner between a Jodel with a Potez engine, or no Jodel at all (let's face it, they are not in over-supply) then one should not dismiss a 1051 just because it has the Potez.
Bear in mind too, that the cost of a well-sorted Potez is probably about half that of an 0-200. In my experience, the 1050 flown from a strip is only safe for 2 POB, wheras the 1051 will reliably carry 3 POB + 70 litres of juice under the same conditions. I took mine to the the high Swiss Alps two years ago (story and pix on the Bristol LAA Website about September '06). Very hot day, 2 POB, 10,000 ft through the Grimselpass: Magic! (with distributor!).
In France the guys fly the Potez on 95 unleaded and don't bother to remove the plugs for years. Miraculously, this seems to have solved the problem of cracked cylinders.
The Potez used to suffer from cracked crankcases caused by the fact that each cylinder only has four studs (must be correctly torqued). That problem has been sorted by increasing the contact surface area between barrel and crankcase.
Engines with the DGAC-approved alternator and starter mod have no starting problems summer or winter, even if they use a distributor, which I admit is the weakness in the system (only because a replacement distributor is hard to find). That is the only reason I switched to an EASA-Approved mod with Slick mags. It means (I hope) that engine has a long life ahead of it, provided it is treated properly.
If the Potez should give up one day, I could still switch to another (cheap -- because unpopular) Potez or (perish the thought!) to an 0-200 or a 118 hp Lycoming. It has been done.
A propos switching from O-200 to Potez, that decision was taken by a previous owner of my aircraft.
So, in deference to Brian's observations from Kent, I will continue with my rose-tinted West Country contact lenses for a bit longer. I reckon they will see me out!
Greetings and Happy Christmas to all Jodel drivers.
Graham

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:03 pm

I wish you well with your Potez Graham and hope you get many trouble free hours from it.
A new O-200 is in the region of $18K I believe, say £13K ex TCM. The UL260i works out at about the same price as its pretty well 13K Euros once you've added a few necesary odds and ends to the base price. 21% Belgian vat to go on the UL too so once the two engines are in the UK the price difference probably wouldn't be that great.
However, there are secondhand O-200s available. £5K should buy a pretty good one, and a high time useable one may well be had for less.

Graham Clark · Post by **Graham Clark** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:15 pm

Straight replacement of a Potez with an O-200 sounds to be attractive on the face of it. However, it is not a simple 'plug & play' job. Once you start to do the sums of replacement (especially if you don't have your own workshop, and are not blessed with engineering skills and so have to hire help) the costs of substitution are unattractive, especially combined with poorer performance.
There is nothing wrong with a well-sorted Potez. I can live with it. Of course, I have in the past foraged for spares in advance of their actual requirement. But when they surface, they are cheap (low demand!).
Now, if I could get hold of a Ratier VP prop..... Watch this space!
Graham

Dave Holl · Post by **Dave Holl** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Graham
I would like a Ratier prop aswell

dave

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:43 pm

How different is the 1051 firewall to the D18 or similar? Could you take the Rotax 912s installation and adapt it to the 1051? I imagine you would have to extend the nose a bit to keep the C of G in the right place but that could be done. A 912s with a PV50 VP prop would give very good short field performance.

Rod1

Will Greenwood · Post by **Will Greenwood** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:47 pm

Can't remember the aircraft, but I'm sure there is an 0-235 Lycoming Jodel 1050 on a permit, Wing Farm springs to mind? Its past Salisbury go west and then not far from a gliding club, not at home or could look it up in my log book. Now that will produce more power 115-125hp and would be a good engine. I have just purchased a 1050 with 0-200 and it is fine for what i want, for the time being.

Graham Clark · Post by **Graham Clark** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:23 pm

Will,
I have seen that aircraft; they did a super conversion job. I have not flown it, but I think it is probably the best solution.
Graham

Will Greenwood · Post by **Will Greenwood** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:31 pm

Hi Graham, flew her when I was doing some Bi-annual flight trainng for the group, certainly went well, also had the same engine in the RV9 I sold recently, was economical, light and gruised at 130mph. If the airframe is efficient then a big engine is not always the answer.

Will.

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:14 pm

Hope no one minds if I throw this in here but the Jodel D9 has always been a favourite on my "wish list", and I was wondering how an HKS 700 installation would match this aircraft. It would obviously have to be mounted further forward a bit.

Will Greenwood · Post by **Will Greenwood** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:32 pm

Have you flown behind an HKS engine ?

to be polite, using one in such a lovely aircraft as the D9, might spoil your experience of flying one......just a personal view mind you.

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:45 am

Any builders of "cranked" wings here - any particular difficulties with them.

Graham Clark · Post by **Graham Clark** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:06 pm

Bill, do you mean from the point of view of building, or flying? I have not built one, but hundreds of homebuilders have. The wing is a simple, but very strong structure and is the key to efficiency of the entire Jodel/Robin range.
However, the gilt on the gingerbread is the delightful handling characteristics, and the sheer efficiency of the bent wing in the two areas where it matters: low-speed range; and cruise. Zilch handling problems. Great wing for farmstrip flying. But nor is there any problem in going foreign with a good payload/range. The last time I enquired, I was told that over 6,000 Jodels with cranked wings had been either built or are under construction around the world. There is also a brilliant informal support network for Jodels under the Yahoo Groups heading. So you are never far from someone who really knows.
Graham

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:27 pm

I am like a dog with two tails when it comes to single seaters. I am keeping a close interest in the Luciole, but I have always been drawn back to the D9 since I read the flight test report in a Popular Flying mag away back in the mid seventies. I am doing the LAA woodworking course next month in the hope of getting started on a homebuild.
The D9 does a fair turn of speed and that flight test stated that it stalled at 22kts (indicated) - great for farm stripping right enough.

Will Greenwood · Post by **Will Greenwood** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:58 pm

Graham and Dave, I am reliabley inform that MT have done a prop for a 1050 client in Switzerland, seeing as Ratier props are like hens teeth, the guy to contact is Gerd Muehbauer at MT. Could be an option for you.

Will.

Light Aircraft Association

Jodel 1050

1051 Potez

Potez/0-200

Lycoming

cranked wings