silliy question

mike lloyd · Post by **mike lloyd** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:39 pm

i have a zodiac 601xl (still building)

my question is IF they find that is a design problem who pays for the modification

thank you

gasax · Post by **gasax** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:22 am

I suspect a lot of the delays and general lack of will to investigate and promptly resolve the issue come from liability concerns both from the Heintz family and LAA.

The aileron balance mod will probably need the end of the aileron opened up and access into the wing just inboard of the end of the aileron. So don't close those areas if they are on your schedule....

Realistically you and I will pay, the chances of recovering costs for soemthing like this under UK law are almost non-existent.

Pete Morris - formerly flying 601xl

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:48 am

"I suspect a lot of the delays and general lack of will to investigate and promptly resolve the issue come from liability concerns both from the Heintz family and LAA."
Peter, you do Engineering a disservice. Francis is in Paris today to meet with Chris Heinz to discuss this very issue. I have no doubt a solution will be forthcoming very soon.
The March issue of LA will contain an article from Francis on the whys and wherefores of grounding an aircraft, and what LAA does to get the type back into the air.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 am

When the MCR was grounded I was very interested in the cost side. In this case the situation was complicated by the rest of the known world deciding that nothing was wrong and carrying on as normal (which is still the case). In the end Dyn Aero provided the bits free but we paid the P & P costs. I think this was very honourable of Dyn Aero as the majority view was that there was no need to make any change. I assume the price of UK Dyn Aero kits has increased to cover the UK only mod and that any imported aircraft would have to have the modified bits supplied at the importers expense.

Good luck and get back productive building soon!

Rod1

mikehallam · Post by **mikehallam** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:57 am

Poor LAA Engineering, blasted off by folk unable to glance at what Engineering place full on the web Lead page three days ago !

I think a little apology is due.

"Update - Zenair Incident - 19th Jan 2009

LAA Engineering has been in close and productive contact with the designer, Chris Heintz, and we are nearing the end of our investigation. Members of the LAA Engineering Team will be meeting with Zenair Europe in the very near future to discuss some outstanding issues and move towards getting the type back in the air."

Mikehallam

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:27 pm

Mikehallam

I think only one poster has criticized LAA eng. Your quote does not answer the question which was asked by mike Lloyd;

“my question is IF they find that is a design problem who pays for the modification”

I guess the answer is either;

A) He does
B) The importer pays
C) The Manufacturer pays
D) No mod is required so no cost

I would not expect the LAA to pay unless there were very exceptional circumstances.

Rod1

gasax · Post by **gasax** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:54 pm

I don't think I am doing engineering a disservice.

The aircraft was grounded over 3 months ago. The only official word from the LAA is a letter grounding it, a couple of paragraphs in the magazine saying it was grounded and the paragraph on the opening page put there 3 days ago.

We have had a variety of rumours and whispers but as I say over 3 months on, there is actually no statement as to definitively why the aircraft was grounded.

From the same rumours, the 'close and productive contact with the designer' started just before Christmas.

I await the article with great interest because at the moment the grounding appears to have been based upon a general sense of 'unease'.

There appear to be major issues between the Dutch authorities and the designers over the cause and interpretation of crash that lead, albeit it would seem indirectly, to the UK grounding.

Again this looks like it will be a UK only 'fix' and given the varied sources of supply of the kits and the views of the designer, it is highly unlikely Zenair will pay for the parts.

Pete Morris

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Gasax

How much of your problem is LAA eng and how much the CAA? Was it in fact the CAA that grounded you?

If we end up with a UK only fix and the rest of the world decides there is no problem then UK credibility will take another knock, but be careful you are shooting at the right target.

Rod1

gasax · Post by **gasax** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:42 pm

My understanding, and it is only that, is was the LAA grounded the XLs - they certainly acted first. The CAA then followed up by issuing an MPD which also grounded them.

But there has been no information either way and that is my main issue.

Due to the complete lack of information from the LAA I have been communicating with the Heintz family. They obviously have a significant exposure worldwide and have I suspect been acting quite cautiously because of it.

From my last communication they may offer an aileron balance kit as an option but regard the other LAA 'fixes' (whatever they may be!) as completely unnecessary.

If any of this is factually incorrect then Engineering have only themselves to blame. A short letter several months ago would have put owners in a position of at least some knowledge which would be a very big improvement.

mike lloyd · Post by **mike lloyd** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:05 pm

thanks guys
looks like we will have to pay then if there is a problem

have been holding back on the wings to make it easy for any (if any) mods are required
thanks again
mike lloyd