Airside access at Sywell fly-in

Nigel Hitchman · Post by **Nigel Hitchman** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:10 pm

Ian L makes some very good points.
Andre asked for justification on why they should let LAA members airside, well exactly as Ian says, we have been doing this for years at the Rally with no problems, this is surely a precident and shows that it can be done safely. Infact at the Rally we let everyone who came thru the gate airside in recent years, at Sywell we were only asking for LAA members.
I have just returned from Tankosh were as usual everyone was allowed airside with no problems. Next week its Oshkosh, in the home of the ambulance chasing lawyers, the USA, but guess what, everyone has airside access at Oshkosh. They do close the warbird park when there are lots of movements during the airshow, but its open the rest of the time, as are all the other parking areas.

This quote from Nigel Ramsey is really disturbing

"2. The thorny business of airside access was put to bed, finally, by our own CEO who stated quite categorically that he would not have the LAA linked in any way to the airside operations at Sywell in September. This is so that in the unlikely event of a tragedy, the ambulance chasing lawyers won't be able to point in our direction."

Im told Peter has never been to a Rally to see what goes on and so doesnt have the experience of free airside access with no problems that weve had for the last 30+ years, but surely the EC is there to advise him and surely the EC should be directing him in this area.

So what does this mean for the future, are the EC going to ensure that the CEO does support airside access for all LAA members at any future Rally and also at any future regional Rallys. Or is the CEO going to order draconian measures for regional rallys too.

What has changed to such a great extent that makes linking LAA with airside access so dangerous to us now, but it was no problem in the past and is no problem for many othe fly-in organisers.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:11 am

Nigel, as you know I fully support the idea of re-establishing an LAA Rally from 2010, and the LAA Safety Committee is happy that members going airside is achievable in a safe and legal manner. I therefore see no reason why it should not be permitted at a future national event, nor at future Regionals. The sole remaining regional this year is at Sherburn, and LAA members will be permitted airside on production of their membership card.
At the risk of stating the obvious, Sywell revival is not an LAA event, it is therefore not in LAA's remit to say how the event should be run. If Sywell and MKAS, who they have asked to operate airside activities, have decided that carte blanche access cannot be made available, then that is what we have to accept.

J.C. · Post by **J.C.** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:05 am

In no way am I compairing myself with the people running the regionals but I would point out that I have organised a half dozen fly-ins this year entirely by myself for the benefit of the membership.
Whilst not on the scale of a regional event, we have had some good ones (weather playing ball ) and some not so good.

The first Tibenham event was a real success with the highest number of powered aircraft ever seen there, at the same time, there was gliding going on,people were having lessons, trial flights, microlights were coming and going(3axis and weight shift) spotters were spotting ( many commented on the unusually friendly atmosphere) and photographers were taking pikkies. Airside ? No problem.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to big myself up, but if I can do this on my own ,why can't these commitees get their acts together?
OR is it because it is being run by a commitee that is the root of the problem?

P.S. plug..BBQ at Tibenham 23 August.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:30 am

Allowing members only airside should encourage enthusiasts to join. There are actually very few benefits to LAA membership apart from engineering and the ability to turn a permit around by return of post. Now I have my machine running I have almost zero contact with the excellent engineering staff. My permit comes up once a year and the turnaround is very good. The only other activity, which makes the LAA worthwhile, are the flyins, and my particular interest in looking at cockpit ergonomics which requires airside access. If we want members to be active supporters instead of winging about the LAA tax, we need to get this right. I have no problem with members only airside at LAA events.

Rod1

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:30 pm

Hi Rod, sorry to see that you do not consider the magazine a members' benefit, ho hum. And let's not forget all the consultation that goes on to ensure there is some sky for you to fly your aircraft in, and the NPPL should you fall foul of a class 2 medical. Need I go on?
There are a number of issues over 'LAA members only airside'. First, and foremost in my view, is that if it is an LAA organised event then we have to provide member benefits, and getting up close and personal with the aircraft is a benefit.
We also have to be reasonably sure that the people we allow airside are aircraft savvy, it does after all, have the potential to be a dangerous place. In the past we have assumed this level of understanding within our membership, but I suspect in the future we might need to 'document' it along the lines of Nigel Ramsay's online 'test'. And finally, but very important, it is a marketing tool. If the public, enthusiasts et al are interested enough to want to go airside, then they'll join the association, and hence swell our coffers.
I believe Sherburn are also arranging airside tours for non members.

Nigel Hitchman · Post by **Nigel Hitchman** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:52 pm

Hi Brian,
I hope you are right about future events.
Although Sywell is being run by Sywell, it would still seem to have a lot of LAA involvment in some areas, maybe not operational. But the real problem here with the LAA trying to distance itself from the event, is most people in the outside world think it is an LAA event.
However, Nigel Ramsay's message quite catagorically stated that it was Peter Harvey who "but the subject of airside access to bed" ie stopped any further input on the subject and hasnt been fighting the cause for airside access with Sywell. I have heard from another source that the LAA safety comittee were happy for airside access for LAA members at Sywell, but it was stopped by Peter Harvey.
This makes me nervous for any future events that the same thing might happen, unless the EC come up with a strong directive that airside access must be allowed for all LAA members and it is the CEO's objective to achieve this.

Peter, I know many people who joined the PFA for the sole reason of airside access at the Rally, I was one myself. In later years it was possible to pay for airside access, but it was free to memebers, so still a worthwhile benfit. As the membership costs rose and the cost of airside access or rally entry were less significant in comparison to the membership fee, some peope didnt renew, with the Rally cancellations in 2001? and then 2007 most of these people let their membership lapse.
Rod is right, members only access together with a worthwhile Rally with the numbers of aircraft we used to get, or even slightly less will be an incentive for people to join.
Yes it might be a bit of a them and us situation, but with a "static display" or exhibition with some aircraft in it and some view of airside from landside, there will be plenty for perspective members who might really be interested, to see.

J.C. · Post by **J.C.** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:33 pm

As per my post on the other thread (future events) its time for the LAA to put up or shut up.
You really can't have a situation were this "we're having a major rally ..oh no we're not " syndrome then degrades into " well it never was us".

Its bad enough for members , its worse for would be members, and it is totally out of order when people in other countries re- arrange major events affecting people right accross Europe that have holidays booked in order to attend events.

This is rapidly becoming a total farce and the good work that is done by many all year round behind the scenes will all be to no avail when the LAA become the laughing stock of europe.

For gods sake ,make a bloody decision and STICK TO IT !

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:35 pm

Just to clarify my position Peter, I am talking about an annual rally here. Regionals are a different issue, my only desire being that members are allowed airside, preferably at no additional cost to the general admission charge. The Regional concept has only loose association with HQ, each one having its own relationship between clubs, Struts and airfield managements, clearly local situations require local solutions.
John, the decision to pull out of the joint rally was taken early in the year and nothing has changed since. Yes it was unfortunate but there is little point in arguing the rights and wrongs of the decision yet again. Let's just get behind the event and have a damn good weekend.

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:09 pm

“Let's just get behind the event and have a damn good weekend.”

Assuming you are talking about Sywell?

If so, then this is not an LAA event, the LAA has no input and the LAA have squashed airside access for members. Why do you want us to support it and if the weather is bad and we have to drive, just how board do you think we will get sat behind the fence?

If you are talking about the OFFICIAL LAA REGIONAL RALLY at Sherbun, then I am in full agreement. Can you advise if LAA HQ will be attending?

See you there.

Rod1

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:54 pm

I will be at both Rod, and as my glass is always half full, I will enjoy both.